Animal companion questions

[Braininthejar]

1 Some animals increase in size as they advance in HD. Does this also happen with HD gained for being an animal companion?

2 When a dire weasel is attached to the target, does it keep causing bite damage or is it all included in the CON damage?

3 Does "don't mark your territory with feces when we are at an inn" count against the number of tricks a companion can have?

[RedWarlock]

1. Nope.

2. Just Con damage.

3. Umm...

[Braininthejar]

3. Umm...

Hey, it is a very practical problem. Many animals do. When your companion is anything over 300 pounds, it goes beyond a mere inconvenience.

[RedWarlock]

I can understand, but I dunno. It's one of those things that the game generally glosses over for PCs. If you're going to concern yourself with that kind of issue, you get into the really nasty aspects of 'How modern IS this fantasy world?'

On the one hand, I'd say no, don't worry about it, because it's not something we worry about for PCs, so why is it a concern for animal companions?

On the other hand, I'd say yes, because if this IS a topic being handled maturely, it is a possible issue, especially for tracking and such. (What innkeeper in their right mind would allow a 300+ pound animal in anyway?) Some inns I've run have a policy about keeping animals outside, perhaps in a stable/kennel. Training the animal otherwise might allow you to keep them nearby, or at least pushing the issue becomes a good side-issue for RP.

And on the third Athach's hand, there is the 'dung-ages' motif, where we invoke this quote (paraphrased): 'How do you know he's a king? Because he hasn't got shit on him.'

[linklord231]

Why shouldn't an animal companion advance size with its bonus hit dice?  I know this is hotly contested, but it seems to me that the only arguments against it are along the lines of "it's not balanced," and "the rules don't explicitly say you do."

On the other hand, the rules don't explicitly say you don't either, but they do say that "A creature may become larger when its Hit Dice are increased (the new size is noted parenthetically in the monster’s Advancement entry)."  There is no specific rule with regards to animal companions, so the general rule applies.

[Halinn]

Argument against size increases: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a - a Rules of the Game article, stating that the bonus HD from druid levels doesn't increase the animal in size. The counterpoint to this is the fact that the author is Skip Williams (I won't go into detail about why this is a solid counterargument, but he's not exactly known for his knowledge of the rules). It's also in the FAQ, but that's the same author.

Remember to get your ability score increases with every 4 HD (MM page 290). Getting its intelligence to 3 is a good idea, for instance.

[snakeman830]

Well, the only real counterargument within the rules that I can come up with against the bonus HD increasing size is that if the anmal ceases to be your companion, it loses all those bonus HD. It would be really stupid if an animal shrunk because it's Druid buddy sent it away or died (or cast Awaken on it).

[linklord231]

His reasoning for why they don't increase in size is absolute crap.  He says "The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels)."  First off, animal hit dice are not class levels, so they shouldn't be compared.  Second, humanoids (and other PC races) don't advance by Hit Dice, they advance by class level.  They trade any benefits they might have gotten for extra Humanoid HD for the benefits they get from their class.  Third, humanoids don't mention size increases as part of their "advancement" entry, so it's not even relevant. 

[Halinn]

Another argument against size increase could be that "An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice" specifies everything that the AC gets from the bonus HD, i.e. skill points and feats.

It is not a question that has a clear answer by any competent author, but the answers given by the incompetent author are still official WotC answers.

note: I don't own the rules compendium, so I don't know if there's anything on the subject there.

[Braininthejar]

(What innkeeper in their right mind would allow a 300+ pound animal in anyway?)

"So, keeping large animals in the rooms is against the inn's policy... should I leave my dire wolf sleeping outside or in the stable with the horses?"

[linklord231]

(What innkeeper in their right mind would allow a 300+ pound animal in anyway?)

"So, keeping large animals in the rooms is against the inn's policy... should I leave my dire wolf sleeping outside or in the stable with the horses?"

You're assuming the guards at the town gate even let your wolf into the city ;-)

On a related note, you can "push" your pet as a move action to get it to perform any trick it doesn't know.  I'd use its "known" tricks for combat things and push when you need it to do something out of combat.  Like, for example, not peeing on the furniture.

[Mooncrow]

I do want to point out that the number of animals that the HD increasing = size increasing argument applies to is vanishingly small.  All rules arguments aside, what it does do from a practical point of view is make the handful of animals that it does apply to stand out even more than they already do (spoiler alert: it applies to fleshraker).

So, while I agree that there's no real rules reason for it not to apply, the completely lop-sided way that it interacts with the lists makes it a bad idea, imo. 

For #3, as linklord231 mentioned, "push" is your friend in all non-combat situations. 

[RedWarlock]

I'll also say, on the animal HD, (though this could be my own memory of the aforementioned Skip Williams ruling) that advancement entries aren't talking about an individual gaining levels, but unique individuals who are more powerful than the rest of their kind. They didn't start off all as 2HD wolves, then one learned some stuff and gained a 3rd HD, he was always going to be a 3HD wolf at full size. Size advancement is not the same as personal level advancement.

Animal companion HD are more like bonus hit dice, rather than animal progressions. They're almost class levels unto themselves, though levels purely gained from the druid/ranger's bond.

Very different, in my book.