Author Topic: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?  (Read 3381 times)

Offline weenog

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Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« on: June 15, 2012, 01:51:39 PM »
Anything by WotC goes D&D 3.5 game, ECL 6 currently, expected to go as far as ECL 12.  Somebody flaked and I'll need an additional character ready to go by June 24.  The party is weak on healing, front line stopping power, talky skills, and sensing ambushes and other hidden things, though I think talky skills can slide, probably healing too if we get a little bit better about preventing incoming damage.

I'm stuck for ideas.  So far the best I've come up with is half-minotaur whatever with a spiked chain (Aptitude through one wealth exploit or another) and Boomerang Daze, Combat Reflexes, plus either Knock-Down or Large and In Charge.  Senses by either custom competence bonus Spot+Listen items, or a mindbender dip + Mindsight (preferably use a longer-range source of telepathy if I can only find a usable one), or finding some way to improve Scent range from the wimpy 60 feet provided by the Improved Scent feat.  I'm looking for reliable enemy detection at least 300 feet out.  I considered being undead and using Lifesight, but it's no good against undead or construct ambushes, plus I'd be losing even more actual character levels if I pick up an undead template, not to mention no bonus hp from Con.

Trouble is my financial situation has become fairly dire and I'm too busy looking for a new job to spend hours poring over books and guides and thinking about the problem.  I could use some hints and pushes in fruitful directions.  Please help.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 01:53:16 PM by weenog »
"Whoops, forgot to roll my fire and holy damage."
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Offline Genuine

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 10:06:01 AM »
So, to sum up, you need melee power, healing, talky skills, and scouting ability.

Other than the talky stuff, this screams Druid to me.

Summons, animal companion, and Wildshape more than cover melee stopping power. You have the spells to handle healing (though, as always, it's probably better to get a few wands of vigor and do it out of combat). You (should) have maxed wisdom so getting all those high sensor checks should be easy enough, and a summon nature's ally I to scout ahead is simple.

Here's a sample build for ECL 6:
Half-Orc Druid (for the half-orc substitution levels)
1: Extend Spell
2:
3: Companion Spellbond (a very underrated feat - it makes buffing much easier to do to yourself and your companion).
4: +1 Wis (or round off an odd ability score, depending on how you rolled them).
5:
6: Natural Spell

The half-orc levels give your animal companion toughness (big whoop) and gives you augment summons for the cost of a wildshape/day (worth it). If you are allowed to use dinosaurs for wild shape and animal companions, you aught to rock on toast. Use summons to keep from getting overwhelmed, use battlefield control to slow down enemies, and buff your Fleshraker companion into a whirling ball of death.

Oh, and vigor everyone back to health when you're done. :D

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 11:11:11 AM »
Cleric is good, too.  Get a decent charisma, probably to fuel some of those devotion/divine feats, and you can do all the melee, healing, and talking.  You've got a good wisdom, too, so if you dip into something with Spot/Listen as class skills (Ruathar, I think, and there's bound to be some domains), then you can go to town. 

It's simple in the sense of build, though I don't know if you want to avoid the headaches of playing a full spellcaster.

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 01:35:31 PM »
You know what? If you want to avoid playing a full caster:

Be a Human Bard 2/Crusader 3/Mindbender 1/Crusader +13.

Grab Standstill + Boomerang Daze, Song of the White Raven, Practiced Spellcaster, Mindsight and maybe extra song/able learner.

You can inspire courage, suffer large amounts of damage, sense people that are intelligent, max out talking skills and do some healing with crusader maneuvers.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 01:53:37 PM »
Other than the talky stuff, this screams Druid to me.
Druids have Diplomacy as a class skill, and only need to worry about Con and Wisdom. So they can afford to be the party "face", if they want.
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Offline Genuine

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 02:30:10 PM »
Other than the talky stuff, this screams Druid to me.
Druids have Diplomacy as a class skill, and only need to worry about Con and Wisdom. So they can afford to be the party "face", if they want.
I forgot about that. Of course, it's been a long time since I played a Druid with skill points to spend on diplomacy. Frankly, most of my druid builds are lucky if they get two skill points a level.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 02:37:23 PM »
I just made a druid to be a "one man band" for a solo game. So I made sure to sink some points into Diplomacy, and also took the Greensinger Initiate feat, which is awesome as it expands/deepens your options even more than a standard druid (who can already do everything). Forest gnome fits thematically as a druid race, and makes you one sneaky little bastard, especially in wooded areas. Of course, once you can wild shape, your native race's abilities don't matter as much (but the Con bump is still nice).

Greensinger Initiate benefits:
(click to show/hide)
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Offline weenog

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 03:38:32 PM »
I've got a little time now.

What we already have, as the DM put it, is "a wizard, a druid, and a minigun."  Fairly decent potential for all of them, but both the spellcasters are very inexperienced, and the shooter is deliberately fairly one-dimensional so as not to step on other players' toes.  Another player was expected to serve as eyes and ears and front line warrior, but that didn't work out.

The wizard is clever enough to be flying and/or invisible for tough fights, but then he makes battlefield control decisions like placing stinking cloud as an instant barrier between the PCs and enemies who have already demonstrated a penchant for stealth, losing them for us.  He's only got so many spells per day to go around, anyway.  No significant lasting defensive options, so if he suffers a surprise round or loses initiative, he just plain loses.

The druid's animal companion (and to a lesser extent the druid) get smashed by ranged attacks before they can do much of anything, and then they're left too brittle to do much more than whimper after they or the enemies close to melee range.  Fortunately, the druid has some cure light and lesser vigor sticks, rather than wasting prepared spell slots on healing.  Unfortunately, the wands are typically in extradimensional space and wild shape melded out of availability like the rest of her crap when she needs 'em.

The minigun can take care of himself when opponents close with him.  He lacks the reach, special attack options, and infliction of status conditions to effectively restrain or otherwise delay enemies that would prefer to pass him by and go after the spellcasters.  He is so much more effective at medium to long range that melee combat is a reluctant last resort for him; martial maneuvers see very little use as a result.

Nobody has much in the way of ability to notice things at a distance (or even pretty nearby, if they're good at going unnoticed).  I think the best Spot and Listen modifiers in the gang are +6 each.  So far we've managed to find one invisible enemy through blind luck, noticing that weeds and vines from an entangle spell were wrapped around something that wasn't there.

We're playing Red Hand of Doom, and while we'd like to avoid spoilers, early indications are that we can safely assume nearly all of the region is behind enemy lines... I'd like to have sense options that are working all the time, not only when I know I need them and can spare limited resources such as spell slots or magic item uses.  I would prefer to not use a druid, or to use one so dramatically different from the one we already have that she won't feel redundant and become resentful.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 04:06:46 PM by weenog »
"Whoops, forgot to roll my fire and holy damage."
"I doubt she's going to make a DC 111 Fort save, anyway."

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 04:15:48 PM »
It sounds like you need some melee eft.  So, something like a cleric, prestige paladin, or crusader has a lot of appeal, I think.  It also shouldn't step on anyone's toes. 

As a side-note, I've been long considering trying to set up some html style character sheets.  I use my ipad for my character sheets nowadays, and I've been mostly making pdfs, but I really like the idea of using spoiler blocks for them.  The sort of thing where I can have a short description of a spell or ability, and then tap/click on it to get the whole shebang.  Wikidot looks great for that sort of thing, so ... um, thanks.  If you've got any suggestions for how to best use it for that purpose, please shoot me a PM. 

Offline Vampireshado

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Re: Short on ideas and time, need tank/sensor... suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 07:02:40 PM »
If you believe in variant class feature chaining (as you should since it's not at all overpowering  :plotting) you can make a more martial focused druid by taking druidic avenger (Lose: Animal Companion, Spontaneous Summoning spells, -4 Wild Empathy Checks. Gain: Fast Movement (as Barbarian), Rage (as Barbarian), Tireless Rage (as Barbarian))

and the other UA druid variant (Lose: Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions). Gain: Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC)*, fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track (as ranger))

then the Barbarian variant (Lose: Rage and tireless rage. Gain: Favored enemy (as ranger); archery combat style, improved archery combat style, and archery combat style mastery (as ranger).

then the Ranger variant (Lose: Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery. Gain: Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian))

and the Trap Expert Ranger variant (Lose: Track, Swift Tracker. Gain: Trapfinding, Disable Device as Class Skill)

Then after fifth take levels of master of many forms to regain your full wild shape awesomeness. Then you have a frontline, martial, sneaky, face-like, healing, super druid. Has full druid spellcasting, rogue trapfinding, and a ton of martial capability.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 07:05:52 PM by Vampireshado »
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