Author Topic: Bard/Warlock  (Read 5894 times)

Offline Demelain

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Bard/Warlock
« on: June 15, 2012, 11:08:47 PM »
So, I have this bizarre idea that I can combine Bard (more the music ability, less the actual class) with a melee Warlock (glaive or claw, undecided) for an upcoming game (beginning at level 3, ezpecting to reach fifteen+).
Preliminary build looks something like:
Warlock 3/BattleSorcerer3/Eldritch Theurge 1/Heartfire Fanner 1/Eldritch Theurge+2/Sublime Chord 1/Hearfire Fanner +2/Elseitch Theurge +2/Heartfire Fanner +2/Eldritch Theurge +3
The first level of Heartfire Fanner advances Warlock, so the I finish with... 6d6 Eldritch Blast. Though, I do get 9th level spells.
Not very impressive, and I suspect I can do better.

Dragon Magazine is, obviously allowed.
The party is composed of (unless someone changes) Crusader, Druid (favors Wildshape and beating things with her claws), (Constructor) Psion, and the last player is undecided, but he favors full casting spontaneous arcane classes. I expect Sorcerer. And no matter how many times I try to explain that it isn't very good, he insists on take the Bloos Magus. But that's neither here nor there.

Fractional BAB/Saves are in effect, alignment and multiclassing restrictions are out because... bleh.
it isn't so important that I get a high effective bard level for Bardic Music - Inspire Courage is pretty easy to increase to a respectable number with items and Words of Creation. Hearfire Fanner offers the very interesting Inspire Fight - which will have me granting fighter bonus feats to my melee allies (and maybe the Astral Construct - not sure). This include Martial Study for ToB maneuvers, so it gives our melee dudes a lot of verasatility.
The only thing I'm not really happy with in the above build is the damage and the feat intensive nature of meeting the skill and feat requirements (though Flaws relieve it a little). I'm also not sure whether I want to go Glaivelock or Clawlock - I suspect Glaivelock, because the claw path requiere feats, and I feel hard pressed for those without even laying down a feat progression.

So, how can I net myself ninth level spellcasting, a respectable amount of Bardic music uses, respectable glaive damage (possibly through Hellfire Warlock, if it can be fit in), and, if at all possible, Inspire Fight? Or am I trying to cover to much ground here? I feel like I'll be playing second (or third) fiddle at casting and melee, which I'm fine with, with decent party buffing on the side. That's the goal, anyway.

Forgive spelling/grammatical errors. Posting from a phone, corrections are hell to make.
I am open to divine suggestions, and Prestige Bard is an option (though it doesn't seem to be in any way better than Heartfiee Fanner, in this case)

Offline Demelain

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 11:23:16 PM »
Little more party information :
The Crusader is not an optimizer, and until recently was in the anti-optimizing camp. But between me, the Psion player, and the Druid, he tired of being out done by people who aren't making any particular effort to be good at melee. So, he asked me for help at being a mundane melee dude who kicks ass and doesn't die. I pointed him to Dragonborn Crusader, and I'll be helping him with feat and maneuver selection.
Druid is not an optimizer, however she does have a good eye for what's effective and likes the idea of Planar Shepherd. So yeah, she's going to be kicking butt by accident.
Psion is an optimizer, but he's paranoid to the extreme. I've seen him play a Psion once before and he use about ten power point in an entire adventure (level five) for fear that he would run out. 
Other dude is... something else.I used to give him regular advice, but he either totally ignores me or takes it to the extreme (I told him the ninth level ability of a full casting PrC didn't really do what it was intended to do well, he marked the entire PrC as unsalvagably bad). So yeah, I just let him work his on way. He does full casters, sometimes with a side of attempted gish. Should be fine.

Between the lot of use, we have three melee (Crusader, Druid, and Astral Construct) and three full casters (psion, Sorcerer, and Druid). And then there's me, shooting for some ephemeral in-between.
As an aside, when the character was just a Bard, I was going set the race to Dragonborn (Venerable Magic Blooded, Unseelie Fey, Primordial Lesser Half-Giant) for +7 Int and +11 Cha. This comes with -9 Str (with 32 point buy, I can afford for Dex, Con, and Wis to settle at 10 each) . I don't think it does, but to check: does my strength modifier impact my ability to hit/damage with Eldrirch Glaive?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 11:44:56 PM by Demelain »

Offline Endarire

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 07:55:59 PM »
Why Battle Sorcerer?  You only get minor proficiencies and 2 more HP on average than a normal Sorcerer, but lose a buncha spells!

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 08:07:45 PM »
Why Battle Sorcerer?  You only get minor proficiencies and 2 more HP on average than a normal Sorcerer, but lose a buncha spells!

This.  You don't need BAB, it's really just not worth it.

Heartfire Fanner is boss, I love that class so much.  One option for you is to go with the Claws, polymorph to gain other natural weapons, and then DFI yourself with a ton of natural attacks.  However, you could do it without the claws...

The class features of Eldritch Theurge don't synergize well with using the Claws or the Glaive.  I think you're trying for too many party roles here -- I'd pick either Gish or Caster and roll with it, instead of trying to do both.
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 08:13:32 PM »
Eldritch Glaive is a melee attack, so strength will influence how accurate it is.  Luckily it's a touch attack so strength usually doesn't matter as much, but having a low score will still be a pain.  I'm not entirely sure about it contributing to damage since it doesn't clarify either way.

Having a low strength score also means you're more susceptible to ability damage making it impossible for you to move.  Hopefully your saves are good to combat this, but it's still going to suck for you.

Offline Demelain

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 08:42:51 PM »
I'd actually completely forgotten about this post.
Whilei actually decided to play something else, before that I think I had Sorc2/Warlock3/EldritchTheurge3/HellfireWarlock1/HeartfireFanner1/SublimeChord1/HeartfireFanner+2/HellfireWarlock+1/HeartfireFanner+2/Eldritchtheurge+4

Precocious Apprentice for early entry.
Eldritch Theurge really is just to dual advance.

This got 3rd level sorc spells, 9th level SubChord spells, 10d6 Eldritch Blast, seven invocations (up to greater), and Bardic music level 6 (which would be further supplemented with equipment).

And yeah, I would pick the claws for natural attacks. Fractional BAB +13.
I considered getting Eldritch Glaive anyway and using Quicken spell-like on it with a five-foot step to claw their face off, because lol. Goes nicely with Healing Invocation for infinite healing works.
9th level spells to boot. At this point I feel more like a Sorcerer with exceptionally slow spell progression and some cool as all get-out melee stuff (wraithstrike for the claws, too, I suppose). You're right though, id be better off focusing on something in particular. Ended up running a more traditional melee Bard with gloves of Heartfelt blows and Snowflake Wardance.
Still took Heartfire Fanner, though. Because it's awesome.

Offline Demelain

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 08:43:56 PM »
I never bothered laying out a feat progression, so I'm not sure it would be feasible.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 09:22:27 PM »
So what did you wind up actually playing? :P
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Offline Demelain

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Re: Bard/Warlock
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 09:36:54 PM »
Actually played a Bard/Heartfire Fanner/Sublime Chord focusing on utility/buffs and melee. Couple of other people joined, so we had a Crusader, Warblade, Swordsage, AND wildshape focused Druid in thr melee.
Heartfire Fanner and Dragonfire Inspiration were not wasted. My low hitpoints weren't much of an issue, lots of other threats to contend with for team monster.
As derided as punching things in the face tends to be, if you have enough people punching you'll steamroll it anyway.