Homebrew Samurai Attempt

[Jackinthegreen]

I'd recommend looking at a couple of the fighter variants in Dragon 310 to give you some more ideas for this, specifically the Corsair and Fencer.  One of the abilities could actually lower the opponent's BAB for example.

[veekie]

Dex to damage is possibly a start. Doesn't add a whole lot(since Dex is hard to raise, unlike Str), but it helps.

Precision damage...Maybe if it triggers off the victim having a status effect(in general, that is, so being Shaken will set it off as much as being Slowed or Flanked would)? It'd match the class theme.

2nd 5ft step...its really quite trivial really, if you really want to be mobile, allow moving up to your FULL speed as if a 5ft step eventually.

Tumble, look up stuff that would prevent or hinder tumbling, though if you have a significantly improved 5ft step you won't need much here.

Some of these will inevitabely duplicate feats... I wouldn't go as far as Su though. We have a swordsage for that.

Nonsense, once you reach the mid-levels, you'd HAVE to go Su to have appropriately nasty effects. The trick is keeping them in theme, rather than going 'magic lol'.

Footwork...wouldn't such an ability work better if it just keys off your class level(if you want to block dipping) or BAB(if you want to enable dipping) rather than a skill they might not have?

[Braininthejar]

Nonsense, once you reach the mid-levels, you'd HAVE to go Su to have appropriately nasty effects. The trick is keeping them in theme, rather than going 'magic lol'.

Soo... how do you think a swashbuckler would go Su? Also, Su or not, I think I need some way to do extra damage to targets immune to crits - swashbucklers work best against humanoid opponents but undead pirates do happen.

Footwork...wouldn't such an ability work better if it just keys off your class level(if you want to block dipping) or BAB(if you want to enable dipping) rather than a skill they might not have?

If it keys off level or BAB, it will be linear, which I don't want. Well, it could be something like 2+half the level (rounded up). It  would work. But I wanted to make it more interesting. With the skill version, you can end with a guy in a frilly shirt that dances around demons but you have to work for it.

As for not having balance... if you don't want to do stuff that requires balance, why are you playing a swashbuckler? It would be like playing a bard with no ranks in perform.

Returning to my question; would a second 5 foot step somewhere around mid levels be ok or op?

[veekie]

Soo... how do you think a swashbuckler would go Su? Also, Su or not, I think I need some way to do extra damage to targets immune to crits - swashbucklers work best against humanoid opponents but undead pirates do happen.

At the least, supernatural mobility sources. Combat teleportation, inflicting status conditions(e.g. immobilizing enemies on hit), etc all fall within the swashbuckler's tricks.

As for not having balance... if you don't want to do stuff that requires balance, why are you playing a swashbuckler? It would be like playing a bard with no ranks in perform.

Swashbucklers are inherently skill intensive to build, needing ranks in all the movement skills(jump, climb, tumble, balance, possibly also perform, swim, hide and move silently), a part of playing such skill intensive characters is selective investment to free up points for character customization. In such a case things with static DCs like Climb, Swim and Balance are the usual cuts, you get them to minimum competency and then redirect the remaining points.

Returning to my question; would a second 5 foot step somewhere around mid levels be ok or op?

Too weak even, somewhere around 6th level should be about right(right when they get their first iterative, and too many levels to be a comfortable dip. Note that I argued for a full move as a 5ft step

[Braininthejar]

At the least, supernatural mobility sources.

No, by "how", I meant on what basis. As you said, we want to avoid "lol, magic". Rangers are in touch with forces of nature, bards access the magical potential of their soul through poetry, monks practice extreme focus to push their bodies beyond normal limits... swashbucklers?

[veekie]

Focused development of minor, innate magical talents? A combination of deception, misdirection and just a bit of magic in the blood would do it.

[littha]

At the least, supernatural mobility sources.

No, by "how", I meant on what basis. As you said, we want to avoid "lol, magic". Rangers are in touch with forces of nature, bards access the magical potential of their soul through poetry, monks practice extreme focus to push their bodies beyond normal limits... swashbucklers?

These are the sorts of questions you need to let go of. They are the reason caster/noncaster imbalance is so bad in the core game. High level characters can already do things like wade through lava or fall from orbit and survive which are far beyond the mundane.

A while back I wrote an elemental themed swashbuckler type (follow the link in my sig for Spellblade Duellist it if you want to read). Generally, I would give some sort of short range teleportation effect at level 5 or so that improves with levels. Something like:

Flash Step (Su): At level X the Swashbuckler may teleport up to 5' per class level as a Move/Swift action.

Fluff would be something along the lines of moving faster than the eye can follow for a moment. It helps make the class more mobile. If you make it a swift action it could be used before or after a full attack which might help boost the class's damage output.

Other cool thematic abilities:
-  Deflection bonus to AC equal to BAB (or half BAB) helps compensate for light armor
-  Enhanced Power Attack damage with one handed weapons to bring them up to 2h usefulness.

[veekie]

^^
One thing you can work with is the fancy-parrying as an AC bonus as well. All you need to be is armed.

[Braininthejar]

A while back I wrote an elemental themed swashbuckler type (follow the link in my sig for Spellblade Duellist it if you want to read).

For me it looks too much like swordsage, especially the fire variant.

On a different note, I changed my mind about the Int to social skills thing - it doesn't really fit a swashbuckler to dump charisma. Perhaps I will go with Cha to will saves, so they can dump wisdom instead.


( doing some research. Might take a day or two before my next post)

[Braininthejar]

I am still thinking about what to do to get more damage. My brainstorming has so far produced following results:

Weapon finesse: as the feat, but replace chain with scimitar

Deadly finesse: When wearing armor no heavier than light, no shield (a buckler is allowed) and wielding a single weapon to which his weapon finesse applies, a swashbuckler can add his Dexterity modifier to his weapon damage rolls.

Daring strike: A swashbuckler can seize the moment to strike a careless opponent where it will really hurt him. He adds D6 damage per odd swashbuckler level whenever the target is denied his dexterity bonus, whenever he treats the opponent as flat-footed as the result of a feint (even if the target can keep his dexterity bonus when flat-footed) and also to all close combat attacks of opportunity. The ability counts as sneak attack in all other respects.

Unpredictable fighter: At level x, a swashbuckler that produces a critical threat in close combat gets an extra special attack against his target. It is usable once per round per target and can be either:
- a trip attempt, without a touch attack or provoking AoO, using the swashbuckler's strength or dexterity, whichever is higher.
- a disarm attempt, without provoking an attack of opportunity

Bar brawl veteran: At level x a swashbuckler perfects his ability to stay on the move while keeping his enemy off balance. Whenever he successfully feints against an opponent his size or one size bigger, he can switch places with him (neither provokes attacks of opportunity). Also, whenever a swashbuckler successfully trips an opponent, he can finish the action with a quick shove or kick, pushing the target away, often down a staircase or into another opponent. The target is moved away from the swashbuckler (either straight away or across) just as if he was bullrushed (use the test result as if it was a bullrush), falling prone at the end of the move. If he collides with another creature, it counts as bullrush, limited by how far the first target was pushed and using his strength/size (but not Feats or related abilities)

Keeping the pressure: At x level, once a round, between his rounds, a swashbuckler can make a free 5 foot step to follow an opponent that attempted to move away from him. The effect is simultanous (and so an opponent attempting to disengage from combat will provoke an AoO on his next square moved.)

Momentum: At level x, a swashbuckler can make an extra attack, at the same BAB, whenever he succesfully trips, disarms or takes down an opponent. This extra attack doesn't trigger further extra attacks from this feature. It can be directed at another opponent or at the victim of a previous attack (unless that target was pushed away or already suffered a hit from Improved Trip). This ability counts as Cleave for the purpose of qualifying for feats.

Ruthless efficiency: At x level, the swashbuckler can use his Unpredictable Fighter class feature twice per round per opponent, although he cannot use the same special attack twice. His options are also expanded by the following:
- forcing the target to make a reflex save (10+1/2 swashbuckler level + his Dex bonus) or be blinded until he receives healing and no shorter than for one round (so creatures with fast healing/regeneration are still blinded for one round)
- making a free attack at the same BAB against the same target, treating it as flat-footed, as if he had just been feinted against.

[Braininthejar]

Stuff involving movement: (some of it taken from the original swashbuckler)

Nimble feet: At x level a swashbuckler gains a second 5 foot move per round. It can be performed even if the swashbuckler has made a single standard move action this round.

Agility fighter: At x level a swashbuckler no longer needs to slow down to half speed when trying to tumble to avoid attacks of opportunity.

Acrobatic charge: At x level a swashbuckler can charge through difficult terrain/obstacles, even performing such stunts as jumping off a running horse or a swinging rope, as long as he can make the appropriate skill checks.

Duck and cover: At x level, once per round and as long as he is not surprised, a swashbuckler can make a tumble check in place or a reflex save.

Acrobatic confidence: At x level, a swashbuckler can take 10 on balance, tumble and jump checks, even when threatened, except when using the Duck and Cover feature.

Daring dash: At x level a swashbuckler can use tumble to avoid AoO when running or charging. He can also use his nimble feet move regardless of the distance moved (for example, he might charge an enemy and then take a 5 foot step after attacking to make way for another charger.)

Getting sleepy. enough for tonight

[veekie]

Note that Daring Strike is weaker than sneak attack since the only way to ensure it triggers is to flatfoot the opponent, much harder than just flanking.

Unpredictable Fighter...throw it something like this.

Momentum, clarify, what happens if you used improved trip to trip an opponent(getting one attack from imp trip and another from momentum), then use the imp trip attack to disarm them. Do you continue to get more attacks or do you need to take Great Cleave for that?

Acrobatic Charge, one possible idea is to only count the straight line distance from you start position to your end position as your movement, regardless of how many obstacles you had to go around, etc.

[Braininthejar]

I'm alive, just busy