Author Topic: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)  (Read 4246 times)

Offline VennDygrem

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Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« on: October 21, 2012, 12:50:58 AM »
So, when scouring the Master LA 0 Race list for a character I'm building, I noticed the Beguiler from Shining South. I've heard it discussed before, and it's definitely impressive. However, it's not technically playable as a PC, as it's specified as a cohort/companion character only. But I love the imagery of this as a player character, especially given the image in the Shining South book.

I've been advised by the DM of the game I'm planning to use this for, SirPercival, to post the racial write-up for comments and critique.


BEGUILER
  • -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int
  • Small: As a Small creature, a beguiler gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but uses smaller weapons than humans use, and its lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
  • Magical Beast: As magical beasts, beguilers are not subject to spells that affect only Humanoids. However, they are subject to spells which affect Animals (such as Hold Animal, or Hide from Animals)
  • Beguiler base land speed is 30 feet.
  • Beguilers have a climb speed of 10 feet.
  • Darkvision out to 60 ft., and low-light vision.
  • Natural Weapons: Beguilers may attack with a pair of claws as a primary natural weapon, with base damage of 1d3, and a bite attack as a secondary natural weapon with base damage of 1d4.
  • Illusion-piercing eyes: Whenever a beguiler encounters an illusion, they receive a saving throw to recognize it as illusory without having to study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion. They also gain a +2 bonus to will saves against illusions.
  • Prehensile tail: A beguiler's tail functions in many ways as a third hand, allowing it to use its tail to aid in daily tasks. A beguiler's tail isn't strong enough to wield a weapon, but it can use the tail to retrieve items up to five pounds in weight as a free action, as the Quick Draw feat.
  • Skills: While dry, beguilers can change the hue and pattern of their fur to match the coloration of their surroundings, even to colors and patterns not found in nature, giving them a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks.
  • Beguilers speak their own language and Common.

What's changed?
The ability mods: The original has -4 str, +6 dex, and +2 Int. I kept the Str penalty, but reduced the Dex bonus by 4. I feel this better fits the creature as being uncannily intelligent and quick, but the stat mods are a bit more balanced against each other. I had them at -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Int before but was advised to reduce the Int bonus.
Attacks: The original has four claw attacks, a bite attack, and Rake as a special attack. I reduced it to two claw attacks and a bite, and left out Rake. These aren't really predatory creatures like a lion or something, and are described as being not especially aggressive. The attacks also don't do a lot of damage; I'd almost consider just dropping all the attacks, but that didn't sound completely necessary.
Feat: Given the reduced natural attacks, I removed the Multiattack bonus feat. To fit with the fluff of the prehensile tail present in the original, I gave the ability of the Quick Draw feat, but limited the weight the tail can hold, and ruled that it cannot wield a weapon, unlike the original.
True-seeing: This seemed the biggest roadblock to using the Beguiler as a PC race. So, removed it, and replaced with an ability to still pierce illusions but not automatically. They gain a small bonus versus illusions, but don't have to interact with them to be granted a will save. A PC Beguiler knows instinctively what to look for, but can still be fooled.
Skills: Kept skill bonuses. Camouflage ability is flavorful and fits the odd creature well, but I could be convinced to reduce the bonus or remove it outright if needed.

One of the main problems in playing this as a PC would be that base armor costs would have to be doubled, as per the Armor for unusual creatures rules, but that's usually not a tremendous stumbling point.

So, thoughts?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 02:37:50 PM »
Seems fair and reasonable.

Offline Chemus

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 10:32:51 PM »
Why remove the ability to wield weapons? The low low str will prevent much weapon damage, granted, but the inability to wield a weapon at all will mean that there will be almost no beguiler rogues mundanes.

With the illusion piercing, consider a clause that would let them see through illusions that don't arrant a save, like invisibility. Like:
Quote from: Illusion Piercing Eyes
Whenever a beguiler encounters an illusion, even one that would not normally allow a saving throw, they receive a saving throw to recognize it as illusory without having to study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 10:44:21 PM »
Why remove the ability to wield weapons? The low low str will prevent much weapon damage, granted, but the inability to wield a weapon at all will mean that there will be almost no beguiler rogues mundanes.
Only applies to the tail.  They can wield weapons with their hands normally...
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 11:27:18 PM »
Yeah, only the tail isn't strong enough to wield a weapon. If you look at the picture of the Beguiler in Shining South, you can see it rolling out a parchment with its hands/paws and using its tail to write with.

Similarly, the tail could grab a weapon (of up to 5 lbs.) but you couldn't use it to make an attack. Mostly good for swapping out equipment, like holding a couple daggers in your hands but using the tail to hold on to a wand, or if you're particularly stealthy, you could use your tail for sleight of hand abilities while using your main limbs for climbing.

As for the non-save illusions, at that point I might as well give them True Sight back. For a LA +0 race, I've got to draw the line somewhere. Think of this as sort of a "Lesser beguiler"
Unless others felt the same way. I'm just trying to keep it fairly balanced.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 11:29:43 PM by VennDygrem »

Offline Chemus

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 11:50:19 PM »
Fair enough, though as written, it could be construed to mean that it can penetrate invisibility et al anyway. Though I personally don't mind that; warlocks can get something similar but use up a class feature.

For clarity, consider calling out spells with a save of will - disbelief. Perhaps just reword the ability like this:

Quote from: Illusion-piercing eyes:
Whenever a beguiler encounters an illusion spell whose saving throw is "Will disbelief", they receive a saving throw to recognize it as illusory without having to study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

Edit: also, having them affected by spells that affect animals opens up awaken abuse.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 11:52:42 PM by Chemus »
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 02:05:58 PM »
I think I'll rewrite the illusion-piercing ability to be a bit clearer and more thorough.

After thinking about it, they should be able to make the will save versus stuff like invisibility, but they shouldn't be able to fully ignore the effect should they pass their save. I'll think on how to appropriately balance what the ability does and does not do.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Beguiler (Shining South) adapted as a PC Race (wip)
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 07:44:07 AM »
I'd say it's fully better than most LA+0 races, but certainly not good enough to be LA+1. It seems to make a pretty good rogue or Int-based caster, just off the top of my head.

I think the things that lend it to being a good Int-based caster are the ability mods and the 30' speed on top of small size. Most of the other things are flavor abilities for casters (I guess darkvision is good).

Other than the fact that life will be painful for the first two levels (until they take Weapon Finesse), these guys are great rogues. They get Quick Draw, which makes them good throwers (be it flasks or not), boosts too good stats, three attacks for free, Darkvision (so they can Sneak Attack in the dark), and a net +13 to Hide compared to a human. The only real downside is the number of attacks they get won't scale past three automatically.

TL;DR:
If you're fine with this being better than most non-whisper gnome LA+0 races, then it's pretty much good as-is.
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