Modifiers when Feinting in Combat

[ksbsnowowl]

Bluff Skill

Feinting in Combat

You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers.

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Bluff Examples: Example Circumstances Sense Motive
Modifier
The target wants to believe you. -5
The bluff is believable and doesn’t affect the target much. +0
The bluff is a little hard to believe or puts the target at some risk. +5
The bluff is hard to believe or puts the target at significant risk. +10
The bluff is way out there, almost too incredible to consider. +20

Wouldn't you say that a bluff to feint in combat puts the target at significant risk?  As such, is the defender's Sense Motive roll really Sense Motive modifier + BAB + 10?

That would make feinting in combat exceedingly difficult.

[Arturick]

I would really freak out if a DM started interpreting it that way.  I think it's best to leave those modifiers out of the equation because, aside from dicking over mundanes for no apparent reason, it leads to arguments for how you feint and how the feint is received.

"I give the appearance that I am vulnerable to an attack, which I hope to make my opponent over-extend himself to get at the false opening in my defenses.  Since the opponent is trying to kill me, he WANTS to believe my feint, so he should actually get -5 to his Sense Motive."

[Jackinthegreen]

Those modifiers clearly can't and don't apply to feinting in combat and anyone who adds those definitely doesn't understand the dynamics of the game.  The numbers would pretty much make feinting impossible and thus they might as well not even bother having it if the players can't even do it without massive buffs to the skill.

I'm just glad it was mentioned here, because almost anywhere else we'd have people who think that might make sense and use it instead of being smart about it and realizing those modifiers don't apply.

[NunoM]

I'd say that there are risks involved if he believes the feint (+10) and if he doesn't (-10), because he's engaged in combat and the opponent is feinting an attack from one side, but striking from another instead. So it... evens out, i guess!

[brujon]

Hum, bluff and diplomacy rules are borked. Everyone knows what happens when you start interpreting them to the letter... Just BAB + 1d20 + sense motive is more than enough to make feinting hard enough as it is, especially at later levels. For exceptionally well described feints that actually make sense, a kindly DM could give a +2 to the feinter, or for a bad one, a -2, but i don't see it going much farther than that...