3.P Monk - need help! lvl 9, PF only.

[Halinn]

The Pathfinder makers must really hate monks, because this class is in every way inferior to the alternatives and tries to compensate with fluff.

Proof of monk hatred.

[RebBrown]

The Pathfinder makers must really hate monks, because this class is in every way inferior to the alternatives and tries to compensate with fluff.

Proof of monk hatred.

But you get lots of ki points! 

[StreamOfTheSky]

God, that is depressing to read. The only thing the monk has over the fighter is better base saves, some nifty abilities (gaseous form as qinggong monk for example) and in general a higher touch AC. But that's nowhere near enough to make up for the huge gap in combat potential and both classes are made FOR combat.

The dueling gloves are a bit expensive at lvl9, but certainly within an affordable price range. What would an unarmed fighter use for his fists though - amulet of mighty fists?

The Pathfinder makers must really hate monks, because this class is in every way inferior to the alternatives and tries to compensate with fluff. Thanks a ton for the help and suggestions, I'll grind over it the next couple of days. The alternative, a crossbow specialist fighter with UMD, seems way more appealing now 

If he's using extra natural attacks...sure, use AoMF.  Otherwise, only use it to apply some +1 or +2 special properties and get the enhancement from an allied spellcaster.  Same as how it is for the monk, aside from the nat weapons option.  Using AoMF as your actual source of weapon enhancing is pure fail for any unarmed-only warrior.  It's great if you have lots of natural attacks.

As for UMD crossbowman...
Crossbows get a bad rap.  It's more feat heavy and less DPS than a bow, but crossbow has some advantages, like less MAD (no need for str at all), better crit range (critical feats work on ranged attacks), and ability to shoot while prone.  Starting at level 9, you wouldn't have to deal with the avalanche of feats required.
That said..the crossbowman fighter archetype SUCKS and is a TRAP.  Your best bet for crossbows is to be a ranger (early feat entry, spells, and nice skills) or some class with sneak attack (for more dakka).  Vanilla Fighter, Mobile Fighter, and anything else that basically lets you keep weapon training w/ a crossbow is decent if not optimal.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The Pathfinder makers must really hate monks, because this class is in every way inferior to the alternatives and tries to compensate with fluff.

Proof of monk hatred.

More proof of monk hatred.

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True Sacrifice (Su)
At 20th level, in a final selfless act, a monk of the healing hand can draw in his entire ki, which then explodes outward in a 50-foot-radius emanation. All dead allies within the emanation are brought back to life, as if they were the subject of a true resurrection spell with a caster level equal to the monk’s level. When the monk does this, he is truly and utterly destroyed. A monk destroyed in this way can never come back to life, not even by way of a wish or miracle spell or by the power of a deity. Furthermore, the monk’s name can never be spoken or written down again. All written mentions of his name become nothing more than a blank space.

This ability replaces perfect self.

I just can't even make up things that stupid....

Well, on the plus side...it would allow a level 20 monk to actually benefit from enlarge person spells...

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So does Qinggong Monk and plenty of other smarter options, of course.

[Halinn]

The Pathfinder makers must really hate monks, because this class is in every way inferior to the alternatives and tries to compensate with fluff.

Proof of monk hatred.

More proof of monk hatred.

(click to show/hide)

True Sacrifice (Su)
At 20th level, in a final selfless act, a monk of the healing hand can draw in his entire ki, which then explodes outward in a 50-foot-radius emanation. All dead allies within the emanation are brought back to life, as if they were the subject of a true resurrection spell with a caster level equal to the monk’s level. When the monk does this, he is truly and utterly destroyed. A monk destroyed in this way can never come back to life, not even by way of a wish or miracle spell or by the power of a deity. Furthermore, the monk’s name can never be spoken or written down again. All written mentions of his name become nothing more than a blank space.

This ability replaces perfect self.

At least it allows the monk to be more useful than he's been in the past 19 or so levels.

For a ranged character, I'd quite heavily consider a paladin archer in Pathfinder.

[veekie]

The dueling gloves are a bit expensive at lvl9, but certainly within an affordable price range. What would an unarmed fighter use for his fists though - amulet of mighty fists?

The Fighter has no particular limitations, so is entirely free to use brass knuckles or gauntlets for his needs, whereas the monk has been explicitly declared to be unable to use those.

[RebBrown]

As for UMD crossbowman...
Crossbows get a bad rap.  It's more feat heavy and less DPS than a bow, but crossbow has some advantages, like less MAD (no need for str at all), better crit range (critical feats work on ranged attacks), and ability to shoot while prone.  Starting at level 9, you wouldn't have to deal with the avalanche of feats required.
That said..the crossbowman fighter archetype SUCKS and is a TRAP.  Your best bet for crossbows is to be a ranger (early feat entry, spells, and nice skills) or some class with sneak attack (for more dakka).  Vanilla Fighter, Mobile Fighter, and anything else that basically lets you keep weapon training w/ a crossbow is decent if not optimal.

The crossbow archetype is complete balls, unless you know you'll face tons of casters without wind wall. And even then you're probably better off delaying or readying without spending feats on making that better.

Tomasso the Arcano Crossbow Engineer is a rejected student of a random wizard academy:

Human
str 11
dex 20 (24 with item)
con 14
int 12
wis 12
cha 14


feats
h1 Point-Blank Shot
1  Crossbow Mastery
3  Weapon Focus
5  Combat Reflexes (1+dex AoO's/round)
7  Snap Shot (5f threaten)
9  Improved Snap Shot (15f threaten)
f1 Rapid-Shot
f2 Rapid Reload
f4 Weapon Specialization
f6 Precise Shot
f8 Improved critical
future feats: improved precise shot, clustered shots, master craftsman (+2 craft, can make magical weapons)

I took the trait to get UMD and a +1 on it and always keep a wand of Gravity Bow at the ready. I took craft:weapons (for crossbows) as flavor and intent to play him as an 'arcano crossbow engineer'.

AC = 10+9breastplate+7dex=26 (mithril breastplate +3 together with armor training means +7 dex and no check penalty)

ATT = 9+7dex+1wpnfcs+2mastery+1pbshot+1mgc = 21/16 OR  19/19/14 OR 16/16/11 deadly aim.
DMG = 1D10(OR2D8gravitybow)+2spec+2mastery+1mgc+1pbshot+6daim = 1D10+1D6+12
17-20 crit / 15f threaten, can AoO when flat-footed.

I know the bow is 'better', but obviously I'm going for flavor by picking crossbow. My DM rules that shooting a crossbow doesn't draw an AoO, but reloading does. So crossbow mastery fixes that which saves me from picking up Point Blank Mastery. It's nothing spectacular, but it does the trick. I'm tempted to take Skill Focus UMD, because it would take me to +18, meaning anything but a 1 works. Next level it will bump my UMD to +22 so I can always use a wand without failure and up to CL3 scrolls. I'd probably drop Combat Reflexes for it and take that at lvl10 instead.

[StreamOfTheSky]

How on earth are you taking Crossbow Mastery at level 1?

[carnivore]

i am finishing a Zen Archer Monk that should perform quite well ... will post it later

 

[RebBrown]

How on earth are you taking Crossbow Mastery at level 1?

I didn't put them in precise order, but since I'm starting at lvl9 taking all these feats works out just fine.

[carnivore]

hows this look


Elf

not sure how the PF point buy works... so will use your values

str 12
dex 16
con 12
int 11
wis 18 (22 with item)
cha 12



Fav Class Ability

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Monk: Add +1 to the monk's base speed. In combat this option has no effect unless the monk has selected it five times (or another increment of five). This bonus stacks with the monk's fast movement class feature and applies under the same conditions as that feature.

Alternative Racial Traits

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•Fleet-Footed: While all elves are naturally lithe and agile, some also are naturally speedy and have a strong desire to rush into situations rather than worrying about looking ahead. Elves with this racial trait receive Run as a bonus feat and a +2 racial bonus on initiative checks. This racial trait replaces keen senses and weapon familiarity.
 •Lightbringer: Many elves revere the sun, moon, and stars, but some are literally infused with the radiant power of the heavens. Elves with this racial trait are immune to light-based blindness and dazzle effects, and are treated as one level higher when determining the effects of any light-based spell or effect they cast (including spell-like and supernatural abilities). Elves with Intelligence scores of 10 or higher may use light at will as a spell-like ability. This racial trait replaces the elven immunities and elven magic racial traits.

Zen Archer Monk 9

1st
unarmed strike
Point Blank Shot,
Perfect Strike
Deadly Aim
Run(Bonus)

2nd
Precise Shot,
Weapon Focus

3rd
Zen Archery
Point Blank Master
Rapid Shot

6th
Improved Precise Shot,
Weapon Specialization
Combat Reflexes

9th
Reflexive Shot
Clustered Shots


flurry of blows(with Bow)
Fast movement,
Ki pool (magic)...boost Range
High jump,
Ki Arrows ..... boost Arrow Damage
Wholeness of body
Slow fall 40 ft.


 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Elf is a really, really bad race for zen archer.  And OP wanted a "fisting" monk.

[carnivore]

since he posted a crossbow build .... i figured he changed his mind

also ...Elves make very nice Zen Archer builds .... what is the problem?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Uh...
Racial proficiencies are a total waste...
Int bonus does nothing for you...
Con penalty hurts...
Elven Magic does nothing and the replacement is meh...

What is elf actually doing FOR you?  +2 dex and low-light?  I guess perception?  Dwarf, Oread, Half-Elf, Human, Tengu, Vanara.... all much better choices.  Zen Archer wants a wis bonus, no exceptions.  And also getting a str or dex bonus (or con never hurts) in return for a -2 cha or int is nice to am for, too.

[Solo]

Some lessons must be learned the hard way.