Author Topic: 3.5 DM seeking advice - BBEG posing as PCs  (Read 1972 times)

Offline Reality_Czech

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3.5 DM seeking advice - BBEG posing as PCs
« on: September 22, 2012, 03:50:32 PM »
Hello all,

Just looking for some ideas on my campaign. I'm looking to use my BBEG's spy abilities to gather information on the group from the inside. I'm looking for ideas and feedback, I'm hoping you all will view this as an interesting challenge in mechanics as well as crafty RP.

My campaign is Gestalt, all books but Dragon Mag allowed, with the players being level 14 currently. The BBEG is level 16 and is a changeling. "Right side" of his build is Factotum 11/Mindspy 5 and the "left side" is Changeling Rogue 1/Marshal 1/Hexblade 3/Cabinet Trickster 5/Chameleon 6. As such, he's a consumate deceiver and can easily take on the appearance and personality of any of the players.

One important point on the villain is that to date I've done nothing with him that an identically built PC couldn't pull off with preparation, so I'm trying to avoid DM fiat solutions, I want the ideas to be something a player could do. It's something I've adhered to to ensure the players have a real chance to "pierce the veil of deception".

What I'm struggling with is how I remove one player from the party (currently in a large city) without the others noticing. Once they're gone, the BBEG will replace the character and use the position to gather information, nudge the group toward his agenda, and ensure his own survival through creative application of lies before returning the original member to the party.

I'm going to pull the player aside who has been "replaced" and have them roleplay the villian (though they won't necessarily realize t's the BBEG, they'll just know they have a "special RP project"), then at a time of my choosing swap them back their real character. I'm going to return the PC to the group, but not before convincing them through roleplay they have good reason to keep secret that they've been absent. Once the PC has been returned to the party everything will go back to "normal".

My goal is more complicated, unfortunately. I'm going to do this with several of the players one at a time until they catch on or someone spills that for the last week they've been gone and if the others didn't notice it was an impostor.

What I'm really looking for here is ideas on how a PC can be removed from the group and replaced without tipping off the others. Magic (spells OR items), trickery, con games, etc. are all fair game, and if necessary the BBEG could recruit NPCs able to cast spells he can't handle personally.

Ideas so far:
1. Translocation trick followed by lockdown/stun/knockout on the player in question. The spell would be cast by a manipulated cohort (probably level 14) with DC pumped to guarantee success. The player would be persuaded their absence was necessary to share with them the shocking insight that there's an impostor in their group and in order to ensure this revelation is kept from that spy they have been pulled out and temporarily replaced so they can return soon and do something about it.
When they return they'll think they're the spy hunter and should hesitate to share their absence and new knowledge with the group.

2. Impersonate the captain of the guard in the city they just arrived at and imprison the PCs. They'll be charged with disrupting the order of things (which given recent events they ought to understand) and be told they are going to be given a chance to explain their actions. The players have been doing good things, but haven't been keeping the Crown in the loop so they ought to believe they have a better chance coming through it by cooperating and explaining what's going on. While they're in separate cells the Villain replaces one of them and then lets everyone (minus the one player) go.
Once the villain has what he wants he leaves long enough to release the captured PC and gives them an RP reason to not share that they just spent a day in jail longer than the rest of them. Probably the "spy in your midst" story but I can come up with others

3. Impersonate the guy that's been giving them resources and advice (independent NPC who's trying to stop the apocalypse the PCs unwittingly began) and pull a player aside. Put the player in touch with a minion who'll keep them busy in the city with a side project (yet to be decided) and in the meantime replace that character with the villain.

I'm looking for additional spells or magic items that might open up new methods, or clever ways I haven't come up with yet to cut one of the players out of the herd for maybe 24 hours. Any clever stories you guys can imagine that'd make the PC unwilling to share that they've been gone would also be appreciated.

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 03:53:02 PM by Reality_Czech »

Offline Kerrus

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Re: 3.5 DM seeking advice - BBEG posing as PCs
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 10:59:22 PM »
The main pitfalls with replacing a PC is, of course, that the players would kind of notice an extra 'PC' in the party, and if you replace one then they're not playing and that sort of gives the game away.

You've mentioned that removing the player without the others noticing is difficult- and it really is, because unless you segregate your players for an extended period (which IMO ruins the game experience), you run into the issue of the players talking outside the game, and the main group goes "So yeah, the DM NPCized you for a bit while you were away." or whatever. Even if you tell them not to, they'll talk outside the game.


In my personal opinion, my best bet is to insert your BBEG as a healer at the local temple. As they're walking through town, someone pickpockets them or attracts their attention. They run down an alley, and a pair of mooks up on the roofs spray them with aboleth mucus.


The party loses the ability to breath for an hour. This would kill them, but if you have a construct PC (you haven't mentioned their race/classes), or an NPC walks by at an opportune time or even the assailants themselves- someone races them to the temple for healing.

Time it so that they all black out, but don't die because the local priest managed to cure them of the effect. Aboleth Mucus isn't a poison, but it might as well be- and for these purposes you could  probably consider it one.

The point here is that the BBEG heals them, and replaces one of them covertly (while they're unconscious). So now he's a PC, and one of his minions poses as the priest.


Take the player aside during your mid-session break (if you don't have one, have one) and basically tell him that his character is getting really angry at the other PCs, especially when they make stupid choices, if he's not the leader, tell him that his character is starting to think he should be (the leader), and that he's feeling very full of himself. Let him RP that without leaving the party.

Don't tell the player that his character has been replaced. Don't tell the other players. Don't mention it until they either 'catch' him or unveil the truth.


What you can do to make the experience more interesting to that particular player is to run interludes. Drug him- anything to put him in a trance state, and run him through several 'dream sequences'. The rest of the players can be present for these- it doesn't really make any difference, save for enhancing the reveal.


Let's say that the replaced player wakes up in the BBEG's castle or base or whatever and has several fifteen minute interludes (once per session, taking place before, after or during whenever the party sleeps), where he explores this strange unknown place, avoids monsters, and tries to 'wake up'- and if he's particularly good notice that he's not dreaming- he's drugged.


Do the big reveal (because why else swap a PC if the players never know?), where basically he escapes and makes his way to town (or back into town if it's an underground lair)- and the drug starts wearing off but things are still hazy...

Then swap back to the party and they're walking along when they see someone in the distance, stumbling around. A pair of priests are chasing him- but he's swinging a sword (or whatever that PC's weapon is) at them and yelling at the 'monsters' to stay away. The PC's then get to either subdue or talk down this guy.

Have them make spot, listen, and intelligence checks throughout the combat to recognize that this is a member of their party. If the player who has been replaced (it's his character) succeeds on any of the checks, tell him "You see the madness in this man's eyes and know that he only cares about your death. Your companions will try to be lenient, but you know the only way to stop him is to kill him"


Have everyone roll init- if the other players try to take him alive or otherwise talk him down, the BBEG's player rushes in to try and kill him. If they stop him (the BBEG) or whatever, tell the player to "Tell the party something only you would know."- and he says whatever.

Then assume narrative control and go "The man you've been beating on swears that he is [PC name] and tells you [something only PC could know]- he's been replaced by a doppelganger!"

The party will flip out, I guarantee it- they'll immediately try to attack the BBEG- but have him activate his ring of invisibility the moment their backs are turned (like, if they expressly say "I watch [character who is actually the BBEG]" then find a creative way to escape, otherwise he vanishes when they're all looking the other direction.



And then.... leave them with the paranoia.

Offline Reality_Czech

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Re: 3.5 DM seeking advice - BBEG posing as PCs
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 03:49:06 AM »
Fantastic reply... I'm going to have to go over this post a few times and then think about it for a while. Not everything you said fits with my intent, but that's much more a function of my failure to explain more than anything you "missed". I'll reply more fully but I need to go to bed, fortunately I still have a few days before next session.

One thing I will say is I think the idea of just replacing ONE of them and drawing it out for as long as possible is far superior to trying to do it with more than one character... I think a lot of your ideas are really fantastic and one of the great dramatic moments I'm hoping for is the reveal, followed by the PC and the villain pointing at each other and trying to convince the party they're the real one.

The party is as follows (in case you see opportunities based on the race/class):

Treant//Hulking Hurler/Bloodstorm Blade/Warblade (Artillery)
Pixie/Rogue//Sorcerer/Incantrix
Succubus/Monk/Hexblade//Sorcerer/Incantrix (Current favorite for kidnapping)
Half Iron Golem/Ordained Champion//Cleric/Monk
Some sort of Scout & Arcane Archer//Wizard/PrC (I forget his build)

Thanks again, you've definitely given me plenty to think about.