Mixing Natural and Manufactured Attacks

[SolEiji]

I remember seeing a rule (or an FAQ or something) clarifying how natural and manufactured attacks mix, which I believe boiled down to "treat them either as all manufactured or all natural" to figure out how many attacks and at what penalty.  I need it as a quote to show someone else, but I can't remember where I saw it.  Does anyone recall this rule and its source?

[Garryl]

That is incorrect. You make your manufactured weapon attacks as normal, then you make your natural attacks (assuming you have free limbs for them not in use for the manufactured weapons) as secondary natural attacks (-5 attack penalty, add only 1/2 Str to damage). Your manufactured weapon attacks are as manufactured weapons, and your natural attacks are as natural weapons.

[Jackinthegreen]

Long ago the combo of manufactured (in this case a monk's unarmed strike) and natural weapons was made at http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26167777/Help_with_Frost_Rager_Barbarian_Fist_of_the_Forest?post_id=474713553#474713553.  Don't make the same mistake as the main poster there in thinking natural attacks use anything from two-weapon fighting.

[kitep]

Garryl is correct.  Attack with the manufactured weapons as normal, then add your natural attacks.  When you do this, your primary natural attack becomes a secondary attack and takes a -5 penalty, and also only gets 1/2 str bonus to damage instead of full or 1.5x full.

Rules Compendium, p100

COMBINING WEAPONS
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do
so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise, and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary. These secondary attacks don’t interfere with the primary attack, but they take the usual penalty for being secondary attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.

And also WOTC's website
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a    (This is part 2 - see also part 3)
It mostly talks about combining monk attacks with natural attacks, but it makes it clear you get multiple attacks with your manufactured weapon and not just 1.
It also makes it clear that unarmed attack is not the same as a natural weapon, which you'll need to understand to follow its logic.

Good luck!

[zook1shoe]

That seems to imply that you can use claw attacks while using those same hands for a different attack. So you could make the following attacks...

Greatsword, claw, claw, bite

[kitep]

I can see that conclusion from the RC, but the links I posted make it clear that if you're using a hand/claw for a manufactured weapon, then you can't make a natural attack with it.

[zook1shoe]

Well the RC would overrule those articles because it came out 6 months after them.

[Necrosnoop110]

Some resources...

LINK: Natural Weapons and You: A Mini-Guide

Rules of the Game
LINK: Unarmed Attacks (Part One)
LINK: Unarmed Attacks (Part Two)
LINK: Unarmed Attacks (Part Three)

From the FAQ:

Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks (such as a
centaur monk) attack unarmed and still use his natural
weapons? For example, let’s say he’s a 4th-level monk. Can
he use a flurry of blows and attack at +5/+5/+0 unarmed
(plus other bonuses) and then at +0/+0 for 2 hooves?
If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon
attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full
attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed
strikes in place of weapon attacks). Since a centaur can make
two hoof attacks in addition to his longsword attack, a centaur
monk can make two hoof attacks in addition to his unarmed
strike attack (or attacks, depending on his base attack bonus).
The monk can’t use his natural weapon attacks as part of a
flurry of blows, but he can make natural weapon attacks in
addition to his flurry. Such attacks suffer the same –2 penalty
as the monk’s flurry attacks in addition to the normal –5
penalty for secondary natural attacks.