The Binder Handbook: Let's Make a Deal Discussion

[snakeman830]

I do believe that KoSS does not force you to bind a specific vestige (Tenebrous Apostate and Scion of Dantallion do, however), it just gives nice bonuses to your specific vestige.  It doesn't penalize you for not binding your chosen vestige.

[Waazraath]

I do believe that KoSS does not force you to bind a specific vestige (Tenebrous Apostate and Scion of Dantallion do, however), it just gives nice bonuses to your specific vestige.  It doesn't penalize you for not binding your chosen vestige.

Truth, but then you'll lose acces to all the class features....

[Shadowhunter]

I think Nymph's Kiss from Book of Exalted Deeds is a feat worth mentioning. It forces you to be very good and have an "intimate relationship" with some kind of good-aligned Fae. Oh no.

What it gives are 1 skill point per level, +1 bonus to saves against Spells and Spell-like abilities and +2 circumstance bonus to all Charisma-based checks. Also Fey consider you Fey, not mortal.

So more skill points, a bonus to saves against one of the most important things to have good saves against and a +2 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Use Magic Device and Binding checks?
Yes please.

[123456789blaaa]

Binder is my favorite entry into the Fiend of Possesion PRC because of its simplicity. With most of the other entry classes you need to jump through hoops in order to use their features. Binder however gives all supernatural abilities which are usable when possessing someone. Both classes also key of Cha. Here's a build from 339:

Here's a little tidbit for evil Binders that really wanna make those Witch Hunters mad.

Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 + Shape Soulmeld: Planar Chausible = Will Save +5 + Outsider Type + Evil Subtype = Fiend of Possession

An example build (I'll call it the "Master of Souls") would be...
Binder 6/ KotSS 5/ Fiend of Possession 6/ Binder 7-9

EBL 14 (16 with feat) will allow access to 7th level Vestiges
BAB +14
All the FoP goodies (Ethereal at will, Possession, ect.)
Cha Synergy (all the FoP abilities are Cha based Supernatural Abilities)

Skills: Hide 6 (Cross-class), Knowledge: Arcana 6
Feats: Improved Binding, Weapon Focus, Shape Soulmeld (Planar Chausible), Expel Vestige, Rapid Pact Making, Ability Focus (Possession), Split Chakra, Ignore Special Requirements, Sudden Ability Focus

[edit]
How to maximize your Possess Creature save DC...

Base Possession save DC = 10 + FoP level + Cha Bonus = 28


Veil of Allure (+2) [14k gp Sandstorm]
Ability Focus: Possession (+2)
Sudden Ability Focus (+2)
Chupoclops's Aura of Despair (-2 to other's saves when Chupoclops is bound)
Focalor's Aura of Sadness (-2 to other's saves when Focalor is bound)

For a total effective Possess Creature save DC of 36 (38 once per day)

Shape Soulmeld for gaining the [Evil] subtype doesn't work but their are plenty of other ways to get it.

[wotmaniac]

Yeah, you're welcome.

But seriously .....
This is pretty much the first time I've had reason to research Binders (which explains why I'm just now getting to this) -- so I have one simple question that I need answered:
Why in the blue hell is Skilled Pact Making not on the list of recommended feats?  Seriously -- +4 to binding checks?  available as your level-4 bonus feat (can take as level-3 feat if multiclassed)?  Especially if you're taking Improved Binding.  I feel like I can't sign up for this feat fast enough.

Thoughts?

[linklord231]

Why would you want to use a feat (even a bonus one) on making your binding checks more likely to succeed? Passing a binding check does 2 things, neither of which are extremely important. It makes it so that you can suppress a sign, and can ignore their influence. I've only ever had to suppress a sign twice, and I regularly respect the influences even when iI make a good pact.

To me at least, making a good pact is just a "hey, neat" thing.

[wotmaniac]

Hmmmm.
Having never played a binder (or even seen one on play) ..... failing your binding check, while it may make for some potentially interesting roleplaying situations (which in and of itself could be pretty cool), seems like it could become quite annoying. 
This may be the "abused player" in me speaking, but I can totally see a DM using a failed binder check as an excuse to seriously fuck with you (+ collateral damage to the rest of the party) -- you know, for the lolz.

So, I take it that I am to believe that there's not really a need to be that kind of "DM-proofed"?
(I know -- "find a new DM", right?  Sorry, non-fuck-with-you DMs are pretty slim pickings 'round here.)

[Nifft]

Just FYI the image host you used isn't working any more.

[Stratovarius]

Well aware this is a hell of a necropost, but seems unusual to have a Binder handbook that doesn't discuss Karsite as a potential class for Binders.