Author Topic: Please post your comments on these armies  (Read 2163 times)

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Please post your comments on these armies
« on: February 17, 2013, 01:44:26 PM »
So, we are in a game where we are divided in factions. We have gestalt characters and all, but we are pretty content with our characters.
I would like to seek advice with the other guys of our factions.
The faction effectively replaces the Leadership feat. Each one of us can prepare a total of eight "NPC" dudes. Now here is the rules:

The followers are half our level, rounded up. For example, our main characters are 7th level. They are 4th level.
The followers only have access to NPC classes. They have free access to Prestige Casses.
Only one of them in each faction are gestalt.
Roleplaying prerequisites for prestige classes are "softened".
Each faction has a bonus tactical feat. They do not gain the prerequisites. This means that they can use any maneuver, unless they specifically need a prerequisite.
32 point buy and a +1 to an ability bonus because they are 4th level

And here they are.

Army 1: Chosen of Zarus
The player wants everyone to follow the path of a Pious Templar of Zarus, obtain Smite and abuse it.
Bonus Tactical feat: Awesome Smite

6 Zarusian soldiers
Human 4th level warriors
Str: 17
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Feats:
Faction: Awesome smite
Human: True Believer
Level 1: Weapon Focus Greatsword
Level 3: Power attack

Skills:
Knowledge Religion +3 (3.5 ranks)
Climb +10 (7 ranks +3 str)
Jump +10 (7 ranks +3 str)

HP: 29
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +3
Attack: +9 (+4 BAB, +3 str, +1 magical Greatsword, +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage: 2d6+4
AC: 10 + 6 (+1 Breastplate) + 2 (+1 Buckler) + 1 (Dex) = 19
Speed: 20 ft

Zarusian Crafter
Human 4th level warrior
Str: 15
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Feats:
Faction: Awesome smite
Human: Apprentice: Craftman
Level 1: Weapon Focus Greatsword
Level 3: True Believer

Skills:
Knowledge Religion +5 (3.5 ranks +2 int)
Craft Weaponsmithing +7 (3.5 ranks +2 int +2 competence bonus)
Craft Armormithing +7 (3.5 ranks +2 int +2 competence bonus)

HP: 29
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +3
Attack: +8 (+4 BAB, +2 str, +1 magical Greatsword, +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage: 2d6+3
AC: 10 + 6 (+1 Breastplate) + 2 (+1 Buckler) + 1 (Dex) = 19
Speed: 20 ft


Adept of Astra (Zarus' wife)
Gestalt Human Warrior 4//Adept 4

Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 19
Cha: 12

Feats:
Faction: Awesome smite
Human: True Believer
Level 1: Weapon Focus Greatsword
Level 3: Augment Healing

Adept Spellcasting, Rat Familiar, Healing Domain (Eberron Adept)

Skills:
Knowledge Religion +7 (7 ranks)
Heal +11 (7 ranks +4 wis)
Concentration +8 (7 ranks +1 Con)

HP: 25
Saves: Fort +4 (Rat Familiar), Ref +2, Will +8
Attack: +6 (+4 BAB, +1 magical Greatsword, +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage: 2d6+1
AC: 10 + 6 (+1 Breastplate) + 2 (+1 Buckler) + 1 (Dex) = 19
Speed: 20 ft


Army 2: Unity Empire
Here is a tricky one. The main character is on foot, being a psychic warrior with Hustle, and it would be OK if the followers charge on foot with him. Turns out that I didn't find any good charger PrC on foot, but some feats and tricks. So the plan is to enter Battle Trickster at 6th level, and take Divine Champion with wrath domain after that. I suppose that War Mind would be a better addition, but sadly the player is not very proficient in using psionics and magic. Any opinion about this are great appreciated. The gestalt shall enter Hospitaler. Flavourwise is not the best option, but he will be able to heal better and charge with a horse.
Bonus Tactical feat: Shock Tropper

7 Soldiers of the Unity Empire
Human Warrior 4
Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

Feats:
Faction: Shock Tropper
Human: Weapon Focus Greatsword
Level 1: Powerful Charge
Level 3: Power attack

Skills:
Climb +9 (6 ranks +3 str)
Jump +9 (6 ranks +3 str)
Ride +7 (5 ranks +2 dex)
Balance +3 (1 Rank +2 dex)
Skill tricks: Extreme Leap, Dismount Attack

HP: 29
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +2
Attack: +8 (+4 BAB, +3 str, +1 magical Greatsword)
Damage: 2d6+4
AC: 10 + 5 (+1 Chainshirt) + 2 (+1 Buckler) + 2 (Dex) = 19
Speed: 30 ft

As soon as it hits 6th level, he takes Battle Trickster and Leap attack. After that, Twisted Charge and Dismount Attack

Adept of the Unity Empire
Gestalt Human Warrior 4//Adept 4
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 19
Cha: 12

Adept Spellcasting. Rat Familiar. Healing Domain (Eberron Adept)

Skills:
Handle Animal +6 (5 ranks +1 Cha)
Heal +11 (7 ranks +4 wis)
Concentration +7 (6 ranks +1 Con)
Ride +6 (5 ranks +1 Cha)

HP: 25
Saves: Fort +4 (Rat Familiar), Ref +2, Will +8
Attack: +6 (+4 BAB, +1 magical Greatsword, +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage: 2d6+1
AC: 10 + 5 (+1 Chainshirt) + 2 (+1 Buckler) + 2 (Dex) = 19
Speed: 30 ft


Army 3: Bridgeburners
This is a tricky one. They specialize in making things go boom. With science! Alchemy should be the trademark of this dudes.
Bonus tactical feat: Mad Alchemist

Combat Trapsmith
Kobold Adept 1/Skilled City-Dweller Warrior 3
Str: 6
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 19
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

Adept Spellcasting. Rat Familiar. Kobold Domain (Eberron Adept) Trapfinding

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Level 1: Combat Tinkering
Level 3: ????

Skills
Craft Trapmaking 11 (7 ranks +4 int)
Disable Device 9 (5.5 ranks +4 int)
Search 9 (5.5 ranks +4 int)
Craft Alchemy 8 (4 ranks +4 int)
Knowledge Dungeoneering 8 (4 ranks +4 int)
Knowledge Arcana 8 (4 ranks +4 int)
Tumble 5 (3 ranks +2 dex)
Jump 1 (3 ranks -2 str)

At 6th level he would take Combat Trapsmith and Extraordinary Trapsmith, lowering the time to make a trap to a standard action. Any advice on the third level feat will be appreciated.

Ur Priest
Human Expert 2/Warrior2
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 19
Cha: 14

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Human: ??????
Level 1: Spell Focus Evil
Level 3: Zen Archery
Otyough Hole: Iron Will

Skills
Bluff 8 (6 ranks +2 cha)
Knowledge Arcana 4 (5 ranks -1 int)
Knowledge The Planes 4 (5 ranks -1 int)
Knowledge Religion 4 (5 ranks -1 int)
Spellcraft 4 (5 ranks -1 int)
Knowledge Nature 3 (4 ranks -1 int)
Intimidate 6 (4 ranks +2 Cha)

He currently has BAB 3. That and Zen Archery should make him a competent archer. I am at odds with the human feat. Maybe I should take a Flaw and go with Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice? Also, good thing that Spell Focus doesn't have any prerequisite.

Dread Commando
Forestlord Elf Warrior 4

Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Treewalk

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Flaw: Vulnerable//Feat: Aereni Focus Move Silently
Level 1: Dodge
Level 3: Mobility

Skills:
Hide: 9 (7 ranks +2 dex)
Move Silently: 11 (7 ranks +2 dex +2 Areni Focus)

The Rambo wannabe. The idea is to use Treewalk to hide and strike. Would it be OK, if I give him another flaw to take Least Dragonmark Mark of Shadows and be able to take Shadow Hunter at 5th level? Shadow Hunter + Dread Commando is a very good combination I think.

Gnome Artificer
Human Magewright 4

Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 19
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Spellcasting

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Human: Lightning Reflexes
Level 1: Skill Focus Craft Weaponmaking
Level 3: Grell Alchemy

Skills:
Craft Alchemy 11 (7 ranks +4 int)
Craft Weaponmaking 12 (5 ranks +4 int +3 Skill Focus)
Craft Armorsmithing 11 (7 ranks +4 int)
Craft Blacksmithing 8 (4 ranks +4 int)
Disable Device 6 (2 ranks +4 int)
Knowledge Architecture 9 (5 ranks +4 int)
Knowledge Engineering 10 (6 ranks +4 int)
Profession Siege Engineer 4 (4 ranks +0 Wis)
Spellcraft 7 (3 ranks +4 int)
Concentration 5 (3 ranks +2 con)
Knowledge Dungeoneering 7 (3 ranks +4 int)

This is by far my favourite dude. No matter that his spellcasting will stop at 5th level. When he gets into Gnome Artificer at sixth level he will be able to take Extraordinary Artisan to make the Device Powers cheaper. Too bad I can't use Enhance Item with them, though.
Think of it as Q. He will put the power of science at hand of the rest of the team. For now, he will only make Alchemist Fire and be near a healer.

Pyrokineticist
Human (House Vaymin) Skilled City-Dweller Warrior 4

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 17

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Human: Apprentice Martial Artist
Level 1: Wild Talent Vaymin
Level 3: Point Blank Shot

Skills:
Concentration 9 (7 ranks + 2 Con)
Craft Alchemy 1 (1 rank)
Knowledge Psionics 2 (2 ranks)
Tumble  9 (7 ranks + 3 Dex)
Intimidate 6 (3 ranks + 3 Cha)

Wild Talent Vaymin will allow me to manifest Vigor at half my level. Everything is set to take Pyrokineticist at 6th level and then focus on Intimidate. Should I exchange Point Blank Shot for Least Aberrant Dragonmark (Produce Flame) And take Child of Khiber at 5th level?

"The Twins"

These are tricky and I don't know how to fix them yet. My goal is to make two "twins", a Lesser Aasimar and a Lesser Tiefling and make them an Annointed Knight and a Warrior of Darkness respectively, the two most "alchemical" full BAB PrCs out there. I want them to be the most similar in power as possible, but I can't. The main problem is that the Aasimar receives a +2 bonus to Charisma and the Tiefling receives a -2 penalty to Charisma, the stat that determines the prestige classes' features. Is there a variant Tiefling without the Charisma penalty?


Annointed Knight

Lesser Aasimar Skilled City-Dweller Warrior 4

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 17

Feats
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Level 1: Least Dragonmark Mark of Sentinel
Level 3: Ancestral Relic


Skills
Craft Alchemy 3 (2 ranks +1 Int)
Knowledge Arcana 4 (3 ranks +1 Int)
Spellcraft 4 (3 ranks +1 Int)
Gather Information 7 (4 ranks +3 Int)
Tumble 4 (2 ranks +2 dex)

Everything is ready to take Deneith Warden at 5th level that gives Craft as a class skill and allows to have the 5 ranks in Craft Alchemy for Annointed Knight

Warrior of Darkness
Lesser Tiefling Skilled City-Dweller Warrior 4

Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 15

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Level 1: Iron Will
Level 3: ???

Skills:
Craft Alchemy 3 (3 ranks)
Knwoledge Arcana 3 (3 ranks)
Spellcraft 1 (3 ranks)

And this is the best I can do with it, making this "twin" way worst than the other. I have to spend 10 point out of 32 to give it Charisma 16, but the -2 lowers it to 14. Everything is prepared for Warrior of Darkness. I suppose I will put the two skill points of the fifth level to Tumble.


Knight of the Wave

Gestalt Illumian Vaulkrau Expert 1/Knight of the Weave 3// Warrior 2/Expert levels 2 to 3

Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 19

+2 Caster level
+2 Charisma checks and charisma-based skill checks
Spellcasting

Feats:
Faction: Mad Alchemist
Flaw Vulnerable / Magical Training Sorcerer
Flaw Noncombatant / Precocious Apprentice
Level 1: Improved Sigil Krau
Level 3: ???

Skills
Concentration 2 (1 ranks +1 Con)
Diplomacy 8 (4 Ranks +4 Cha)
Intimidate 4 (4 Ranks +4 Cha)
Knowledge Arcana 6 (6 ranks)
Knowledge History 1 (1 rank)
Profession Astrologer 1 (2 ranks -1 Wis)
Spellcraft 4 (4 ranks)
Use Magic Device 10 (6 ranks +4 Cha)
Perform 10 (6 ranks +4 Cha)
Listen 5 (6 ranks +1 Wis)

The goal is to take Virtuoso at 8th level and then going for Sublime Chord... although for that the main characters should be Epic.



So... thoughts? Should I delete the twins and go for a Changeling build for Chameleon? Is there a good on foot charging PrC that portraits a dedicated soldier and not a barbarian wacko? Did I made everything wrong?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Please post your comments on these armies
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 03:13:04 PM »
... The faction effectively replaces the Leadership feat. Each one of us can prepare a total of eight "NPC" dudes. Now here is the rules:

Does this take the PCs level 6 feat slot?  And see below.

Quote
... The followers are half our level, rounded up. For example, our main characters are 7th level. They are 4th level...

This is OK for now, but becomes bad soon.  As in worse than a Paladin's horse bad.  As in a psicrystal is better bad.  Would your DM accept a re-mod houserule to the "faction", to just allow the followers to be 3 levels behind ??

Quote

The followers only have access to NPC classes. They have free access to Prestige Casses.
... Roleplaying prerequisites for prestige classes are "softened".

Niice.  I don't recall an NPC classes only
thread or discussion.  Maybe now's the time ?!

Quote

Only one of them in each faction are gestalt.

Quote
Each faction has a bonus tactical feat. They do not gain the prerequisites. This means that they can use any maneuver, unless they specifically need a prerequisite.
32 point buy and a +1 to an ability bonus because they are 4th level ...
idk enough about this.



Aristocrat is good at level 1, but near useless after.  And you're past level 1.
Commoner 1 / Survivor 5 ... pops up every now and then.
Warrior 1 ... is worth a +1 to BAB on the Gestalts.  Then keep offset levels afterwards.
Expert X = good
Adept X = very good, and the Forlorn flaw ditches the Familiar for a Bonus Feat.
Magewright X = iffy but maybe necessary. 

Cleric PrCs are where the actions at.

So like Warrior 1 / Expert 3 // Adept 4 with the flaw.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

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Re: Please post your comments on these armies
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 03:55:39 PM »
Does this take the PCs level 6 feat slot?  And see below.
Nop, thing is that we want to have some "Leadership" without the broken feat. They are like a gift to the players.

This is OK for now, but becomes bad soon.  As in worse than a Paladin's horse bad.  As in a psicrystal is better bad.  Would your DM accept a re-mod houserule to the "faction", to just allow the followers to be 3 levels behind ??
They are designed to take care of the pests. For example when we reach 20th level, we will face thousands of lvl1 commoneers, hundreds of 3rd level barbarians and dozens of 8th level adepts. They are designed to handle these pests while we face the Great Red Wyrm


idk enough about this.
To clarify:
There is only a gestalt NPC character per army
The Tactical Bonus are
Army 1: Awesome Smite
Army 2: Shock Trooper
Army 3: Mad Alchemist

Aristocrat is good at level 1, but near useless after.  And you're past level 1.
Commoner 1 / Survivor 5 ... pops up every now and then.
Warrior 1 ... is worth a +1 to BAB on the Gestalts.  Then keep offset levels afterwards.
Expert X = good
Adept X = very good, and the Forlorn flaw ditches the Familiar for a Bonus Feat.
Magewright X = iffy but maybe necessary. 

Cleric PrCs are where the actions at.

So like Warrior 1 / Expert 3 // Adept 4 with the flaw.
Aristocrat is an Expert with more money and rigid class skills. So, no.
I made abuse of the Adept on the kobold. Combat Trapsmith needs Trapfinding and that is why it has a level in Adept, gaining the Kobold Domain. Forlorn is from Dragon Magazine and we try very hard to not use anything from there. I know that the best PrC for Adepts are Dragonslayer, Dracolyte and Hexer, but we have some temathics on each army: Smite in Army 1, Charge in Army 2, Science in Army 3.

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Re: Please post your comments on these armies
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2013, 11:39:13 PM »
I think that I am not doing anything against the rules, so... bump?
I am begginig to ditch the idea of the Aasimar/Tiefling twins in favour of just humans with the Celestial and Fiendish Heritage feats from Planar Handbook. And I am beggining to think that Warrior of Darkness and Annointed Knight are not that good PrCs. Any comment about any of the proposed builds will be greatly appreciated.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Please post your comments on these armies
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 07:29:58 PM »
Ahh, so the cannon fodder is it's own mini-game.  That'll do.


So can the gestalts can be:
1) ... NPC // NPC
2+) ... NPC // PC
??

Shock Trooper is begging for Dungeoncrasher Fighter.
Mad Alchemist ... cranking up a Craft check Item is easy money.
Awesome Smite ... gives a piece of Endarire's Dragoon build.  Might be a do-able extension.



Magewright into 3.0e Gnome (Lantan) Artificer ... sounds like fun.
It won't be overpowered no matter what you do.
Cheap version of Wands with less than 50 charges when made = good.
Nerveskitter of course.

Human >> Aasimar/Tief ... most of the time because of the bonus feat.
Your codpiece is a mimic.