Author Topic: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?  (Read 2453 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« on: February 21, 2013, 08:06:57 PM »
One of the bonus class skills that a Black Dragon gets is Swim.  As it has a swim speed, it naturally gets a +8 racial bonus to Swim checks, and can also Take 10 on any swim checks.

However, Black Dragons also have the Water subtype, which states:
Quote
Water Subtype:  This subtype usually is used for elementals and outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane of Water. Creatures with the water subtype always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. A water creature can breathe underwater and usually can breathe air as well.

The bolded portion basically means it is pretty much always treated as succeeding on a swim check to move, right?  If it can move through water without needing to make checks, what is the point of having the skill?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 08:34:30 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 08:09:25 PM »
For when it has to swim in substances other than water.
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 08:16:46 PM »
It breathes acid. Acid is not water. Therefore, if it makes an acid lake somehow, it needs swim as a skill to move about in there?

Offline Nunkuruji

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • I shall bring great terror
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 09:08:41 PM »
Doesn't make a lot of sense considering its written into Core

Otherwise, I suppose there's the off chance of using it during Polymorph or if taking Alternate Form (RoE)

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2232
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 10:47:28 PM »
You'd still need to make checks to "perform a special action or avoid a hazard".
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 06:56:59 PM »
Well black dragon's don't have modern manufacturing techniques
so keeping the balance between Mud + Black Dragon Acid breath,
requires you to be underwater for a long time.
Works out about like this stuff ---> http://www.awakeningskincare.com/dead-sea-mud-p/fmudface.htm
The thorp Aristocrats have to spend their money somehow.



EDIT --- oh right, a Transmute Mud To Lotion spell.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 07:02:20 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 07:21:18 PM »
How can you do some research, look up the Water Subtype for an Acid based Dragon, and wonder why it has a Racial bonus to Swim?

Specially when
A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its swim speed without making Swim checks. It has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. The creature can always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. The creature can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.
Every single creature ever printed has a Racial Bonus and it explains why...

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 07:55:08 PM »
How can you do some research, look up the Water Subtype for an Acid based Dragon, and wonder why it has a Racial bonus to Swim?

...
Because I was remembering that part from memory...  :pout

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Why do Black Dragons need Swim as a skill?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 10:00:09 PM »
Because I was remembering that part from memory...  :pout
Alright alright I'll give you that one. Pelor knows how many times I've posted from work or carpooling on my phone.