Author Topic: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization  (Read 8367 times)

Offline Biohazardia

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Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« on: February 18, 2013, 04:45:06 PM »
Hi everyone!

This is my first time making a mage class, and while I've looked around at different sorcerer builds/prestige classes/spells/you name it for hours, I'm still a bit unsure as what to do. So, I'm hoping I can get some advice specific to my situation. :)

In a couple weeks I'm going to be playing in a campaign at ECL 10, with a free +1 LA, and I'm planning to be the mage of the party. The theme of the campaign is "Occult Killers" so we're expecting to fight a lot of outsider demons, undead, incorporeal beings, constructs, stuff like that, most likely with increased CR. (Actually, almost definitely with increased CR). (This also means I'm going to have to worry about enemy spell resistance).

Everyone is going to be very optimized - we've got a fully spec'd dragonfire bard (adding at least at least 4d6 per melee hit per person), a goliath duskblade, a warblade/hellreaver, a ranger skirmisher, and a doppelganger warshaper. As the mage, and thus the party's "hole in one", I'm going to be expected to do at least 15-20d6 damage at least three times per day (preferably more than that), so I need to figure out a build that is up to speed with that. :I So...in other words, pretty cheesy, barring nanite armies, Pun-Puns, etc.

I've looked into the Incantatrix, but they seem to be better for Wizards than Sorcerers because of the whole spellcraft check based on Int bit. Also, one of the threads I've read seems to have erratated/nerfed one of the better parts about Incantatrix: http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=101089 (But maybe I am underestimating/misreading it and the Incantatrix? Since I have literally never dove into a mage class before, I don't know much of the mage lingo unfortunately or how the Incantatrix is put together, aside from persisted buffs and somehow) using metamagic to drive caster levels up to like 25 at level 8 for spells (which, after that errata, is that even allowed?)

 I wouldn't mind playing a Wizard, if I can find a race that will give me at least 22 Int and at least 26 Dex. Right now I'm playing as a Nixie (MM1, +3 LA, Small size, 10+Caster Level SR, -5/Cold Iron DR, -4 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +8 Cha) with base stats 12, 17, 14, 12, 12, 8, 17 before leveling. (Dex is really important IMO, since I need to be on-par with the AC of the rest of my party, which hovers around 26-32 without spell buffs). I would be playing Pixie, but someone already is one and we aren't allowed to have two of the same race in the party. I've asked my DM about the Petal fey race (MM3, -8 Str, +10 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Int, +8 Cha with 60ft good fly speed, DR -5 Cold Iron) but he is not using the +2 LA for the cohort option listed in MM3, so I suspect the LA will be around +4...not sure if that is better than Nixie or not.

Restrictions are: All WotC published rulebooks and official errata (newest published overrules older), 3.5 and non-updated 3.0 Dragon Magazines. No custom items allowed. Everything will be very rules based, so anything for fluff will be almost useless.

So...how can I do this? XD Should I just Wizard -> Incantatrix? Is there any other sorcerer prestige or build out there that can do enough damage/buff/debuff/control? (I'm sure there is, because I've seen my DM (when he was a player) do like 10d6+ at ECL 6 as a Wu Jen, which is inferior to a sorcerer/wizard >_<)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 09:00:04 PM by Biohazardia »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2013, 04:50:44 PM »
Sorcerer based Incantatrix is absolutely fine and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. Yes a Wizard may naturally obtain a +12 bonus from his Int, but you won't exactly be dumping it will you? In fact, in your quest to optimized your Charisma you'll have plenty of chances to crank your Int score up as well.

I had a Sorcerer build I posted on here, it's the last one I built and it actually avoided PAO/Shapechange abuse on purpose. But it's spell DCs were over 50 and it could Extend Persist a dozen spells, you can tweak it as needed once I find it.

Edit - Found it.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 04:57:44 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Solo

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"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Waazraath

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2013, 04:52:53 PM »

Offline Biohazardia

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 05:32:04 PM »
These are pretty helpful, thanks! Thing is, I'm not going to be at level 20, I'm only probably going to be at level 7, 8 or 9 (depending on the LA of my race - right now I'm looking at level 8). So...I won't have access to all the cheese that level 20 characters can get. That's the thing - I have to be up to speed by a lower level.

@SorO - How can I optimize both Cha & Int? (Wouldn't it just be more efficient to optimize Int only in the first place and Wizard it up then?)

Also, what about the errata for the Incantatrix? I understand that I won't even be able to use Instant Metamagic before level 12, but still.
Is there any prestige OTHER than Int-based Incantatrix for Sorcerers that will give 20d6+ 3x/day? I have been told by my DM that Sorcerers can be very powerful, I'm just not 100% sure on how to execute it.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 05:41:03 PM »
@SorO - How can I optimize both Cha & Int? (Wouldn't it just be more efficient to optimize Int only in the first place and Wizard it up then?)
Yes it would be more efficient to be a Wizard, but meh.
1. If you going to use PAO to reset the base values of your mental scores, pick something with a decent Int score to go with that high Charisma.
2. Horse Shoes of Flame, a source of an unnamed +6 Charisma bonus, gives +10 unnamed to Intelligence as well.
3. Looking at buying a +6 Enhance to Dex? Why not Persist Necromantic Empowerment? It's +8 with a side of 100 temp HP. Oh, and +8 Enhance to Int...
And so on.

And 20d6 3/day is paltry. See the build I posted? At caster level 20 it deals 20d6+60 using a 4th level Spell Slot, guess how many of those it has with 72 Charisma?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 05:53:04 PM »
Sorc is a better idea than Wizard, for the first go round.
It works just fine in the levels 7, 8 or 9 range and any other.

LA+3 Nixie is not a good idea, for the first go round.
Human or another "normal" Sorc race is better.

Free LA+1 , I'd say 1st level of the Ghost template.
But the 1st level of Half-Fey template is closer to
the Nixie, and still a reasonable choice.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 06:16:09 PM »
Instant metamagic isn't the gamebreaking power of the incantatrix, anyway. That's only what the unimaginative players see. The real power comes at 3rd level with metamagic effect. Crank up your spellcraft and go crazy!
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Offline tiluvias99

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 02:08:42 PM »
Try the War Mage from Dragonlance Age of Mortals. Over 5 levels it adds +3 Damage per Die to all damage dealing spells. On anything that is based off the d6 (e.g., fireball), you're basically doubling the damage.

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 02:39:14 PM »
Try the War Mage from Dragonlance Age of Mortals. Over 5 levels it adds +3 Damage per Die to all damage dealing spells. On anything that is based off the d6 (e.g., fireball), you're basically doubling the damage.

Errata puts a per day limit on this I believe

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 03:19:08 PM »
Said errata can be found in Towers of High Sorcery and is as follows:

Quote
War Mage Errata
(from Age of Mortals)
The war mage’s Battle Magic class feature can be
used a number of times per day equal to 3 + the
war mage’s Constitution modifier. This bonus
is not a variable spell effect, and is therefore
unaffected by metamagic feats that affect variable
spell damage (such as Empower Spell). Intimidate
is also a class skill for the war mage.

Bit of a bummer really.

Offline Empirate

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 03:25:40 AM »
For your race, look into the Sylph from Monster Manual II. It gets Sorcerer casting equal to racial HD + 4. It also has an LA of +5, so after subtracting your free LA, you end up with Sorcerer casting equal to what a class without LA or racial HD would get.

Sylphs are Outsiders (Alter Self! Polymorph!), so their racial HD are actually superior: try to get up to 9 racial HD, the maximum, before taking actual Sorcerer levels. Sylphs also get a pretty nice fly speed, very good ability score adjustments (Cha +6, wis +6, int +4, dex +2, str -2 and con -2), Greater Invisibility at will, summon a large elemental 1/day...

The only thing that hurts a bit is the relative lack of feats and the low skill caps. Although you get more skillpoints (8+Int bonus each level, and your Int is high), and better class skills: Balance, Concentration, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival and Tumble.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 06:00:28 PM »
Heh yeah ... and you get those slightly racy pics from previous editions too.

Your codpiece is a mimic.