[3.5] Help required for a Dragonlance cleric

[Ecthelion]

Hello there,

I'm going to play a  Human cleric in the Dragonlance setting.
The group is composed by:
Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Rogue. I wanted to do a mage but since they have to take the special Dragonlance mage prestige class... no thanks.
So i guess i'm going to be the Tank.
Here are my stats: 17, 17, 14, 12 ,12, 11 so i was thinking going either:
-12 str, 11 dex, 12 con, 14 int, 17 wiz, 17 cha
-14 str, 11 dex, 12 con, 12 int, 17 wiz, 17 cha
-17 str, 11 dex, 12 con, 12 int, 17 wiz, 14 cha
For the 14 in int, my hesitation comes from the fact that i'm used to play character with competence points and having just 3/lvl makes me sad. Plus, i might be the party face since the rogue is a Kender...

I think i won't take any prestige classes because as far as i know, there are just 2 for good cleric in Dragonlance and the way to enter them is... not good at all. But i don't really know the setting neither all it's books some i might miss something.

Feat:
lvl1 Extra Turning
lvl1 Extend Spell
lvl3 Persist Spell
lvl6 Divine Metamagic (Persist)
lvl9 Leadership
lvl12 Craft Contingent Spell?
lvl15 Extra Turning?
lvl18 Extra Turning?
What do you thing? I'm not sure i will be able to get Nighsticks so Extra Turning seems to be the good choice.

Deity: Kiri-Jolith
Domain: Good, Strength, War.
I'm going to take War for sure. For the second one, i'm hesitating because the power of both is not really good so i might want to take Divine magician if the DM allows it, what do you think?

I would appreciate any suggestion or comments about this build.

[Jackinthegreen]

Tanking isn't really a way you want to go in D&D unless you're a Crusader from ToB.  It's fairly difficult to get enemies to singly attack you, but through battlefield control or being the biggest threat it's somewhat possible to do.

If you want to be a melee monster then the War domain is a given of course, and I assume you'll be persisting Divine Power?

Have you looked at prestige classes?  There are some good ones keyed towards Lawful/Neutral Good that fully progress Cleric casting while also granting more abilities.  Clerics do well with PrCs because they don't get any class features besides better spells after 1st level.

Do you have access to nightsticks from Libris Mortis?  It's an item that grants 4 extra turn attempts.  You probably don't want to be cheesy with stacking them, but having one should be a worthwhile investment.

For class boosters, take a look at http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=477.0.

As far as stats go, most of us on these boards recommend a 14 in Con.  Strength is easily buffed and thus not as important to have a good base, but the druid could very well top you on that front depending on what (s)he chooses for wild shape.

[Maat Mons]

Since you like skill points, cloistered cleric (Unearthed Arcana, p50) may be to your liking.  If you're persisting divine power, the lower base attack bonus doesn't matter. 

[Ecthelion]

Tanking isn't really a way you want to go in D&D unless you're a Crusader from ToB.  It's fairly difficult to get enemies to singly attack you, but through battlefield control or being the biggest threat it's somewhat possible to do.

By tank, i mean that i plan to no stay behind and cast.

If you want to be a melee monster then the War domain is a given of course, and I assume you'll be persisting Divine Power?

Yep, Divine Power will be my first permanent spell.

Have you looked at prestige classes?  There are some good ones keyed towards Lawful/Neutral Good that fully progress Cleric casting while also granting more abilities.  Clerics do well with PrCs because they don't get any class features besides better spells after 1st level.

Anything in mind?

Do you have access to nightsticks from Libris Mortis?  It's an item that grants 4 extra turn attempts.  You probably don't want to be cheesy with stacking them, but having one should be a worthwhile investment.

Yes, i had an answer from my DM and i should be able to have at least one and i'm happy about it.

For class boosters, take a look at http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=477.0.

Thanks, really interesting link.

As far as stats go, most of us on these boards recommend a 14 in Con.  Strength is easily buffed and thus not as important to have a good base, but the druid could very well top you on that front depending on what (s)he chooses for wild shape.

You're right, 14 con would be good but i don't feel confortable with just 3 skill points/lvl. I have to think about the Cloistered Clreric maybe.

Since you like skill points, cloistered cleric (Unearthed Arcana, p50) may be to your liking.  If you're persisting divine power, the lower base attack bonus doesn't matter.

Yes, this Alternate class feature is nice but the lack of heavy armor might be a huge pain so i'm really not sure about it.

Edit: I'm looking for a prestige class which gives the heavy armor proficiency. So if someone knows, i'm happy to hear about it.

[Caylin]

I belive there is a decent dragonlance prestigeclass for melee clerics of kiri jolith but the name escapes me at the moment. Possibly in the holy order of the stars book. Are all prestige classes open or just those from dragonlance?

[Jackinthegreen]

Some prestige class ideas:

Complete Champion: Ordained Champion could be adapted to work with Kiri-Jolith fairly easily, but does lose a couple casting levels.  It's great in melee though thanks to spontaneous War domain casting, including getting such spells to swift action uses, plus Channel Spell is awesome.

Complete Divine: Church Inquisitor might be fun since it's full casting, but it does require some fluff you might not be able to do. 
Contemplative loses some hit points, but gains things like bonus domains, immunity to diseases and poison, and the ability to ignore aging penalties.  There's Spell Resistance too, but that can be a bit of a pain since it usually requires a standard action to lower so that you don't have to roll on whether a beneficial spell affects you.
Divine Oracle might suit you if you want more divinations to work with to know what your enemies are up to, and you also get Uncanny Dodge as well as a better form of Evasion. 
Radiant Servant of Pelor would need refluffing, but against undead it can be quite powerful.  Sacred Exorcist will help against enemies who possess others and they get a bonus on certain checks against undead or evil outsiders.
Warpriest might tickle your fancy, but I don't recommend taking more than 2 or 4 levels in it. The Glory domain is pretty good and that's the main reason people take the class.

For the DLCS classes, did you have any interest in becoming a Solamnic Knight?  If you, your best progression for spells is having only one level in Knight of the Crown, and then go into Knight of the Sword.  If you really want to go into Knight of the Rose, keep in mind Mounted Combat will barely do you any good on its own and is thus a feat tax in this case, and Leadership has its own complexities to deal with that you may not be keen on.

[Azoriel]

Rather than taking Extra Turning after 5th level, I would take Planar Touchstone instead.  Using the Catalogues of Enlightenment touchstone, I'd pull the domain abilities for the Dragonlance Necromancy domain - then you'd have turning attempts from your ability to turn (from normal class levels) AND rebuke (from the feat)!  Most of the time (so long as you have a CHA score of 14 or higher), doing this will net you more turning attempts than Extra Turning would.

Prestige Paladin gives heavy armor proficiency - but you need to waste a feat (Mounted Combat) and some points in ride to get it. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin

As long as you only take the first level, you don't lose any spellcasting ability - though I normally take 3 levels anyway, for Divine Grace and that smite ACF you can get in the place of a mount.  The latter synergizes great with Ordained Champion's smite ability.

If you end up taking any of these options that reduces your casting level, the Practiced Spellcaster feat is a must.  (Cleric 4/Prestige Paladin 3/Ordained Champion 5/full-casting-PrC 8 will put you back 3 casting levels.)

[Maat Mons]

Catalogues of Enlightenment says “cleric domain.”  The necromancy domain says “mystics only.”  I don't think that works by RAW. 

[brujon]

Heavy Armor Proficiency is pretty unnecessary given the existence of Mithril armor, and even less necessary for a cleric since you can tap onto Luminous Armor from BoED, which is very nice if you can negate the ability loss.

[Azoriel]

Catalogues of Enlightenment says “cleric domain.”  The necromancy domain says “mystics only.”  I don't think that works by RAW.

It's still technically a cleric domain, just one that's only available to mystics (at least as far as the DL gods are concerned).  Note that the sun domain also has the "mystics only" tag, yet is still clearly a cleric domain.

[Ecthelion]

Thanks for your help

I belive there is a decent dragonlance prestigeclass for melee clerics of kiri jolith but the name escapes me at the moment. Possibly in the holy order of the stars book. Are all prestige classes open or just those from dragonlance?

Yep, you were right, it's called "Righteous Cohort of Kiri-Jolith" and it's nice. Full casting and d10 hp.

Heavy Armor Proficiency is pretty unnecessary given the existence of Mithril armor, and even less necessary for a cleric since you can tap onto Luminous Armor from BoED, which is very nice if you can negate the ability loss.

Well even in Mithril, a Full plate would give a -3 to every attack rolls which i don't really want. And i'm not sure i will have any acces to the BoED.

For the DLCS classes, did you have any interest in becoming a Solamnic Knight?  If you, your best progression for spells is having only one level in Knight of the Crown, and then go into Knight of the Sword.  If you really want to go into Knight of the Rose, keep in mind Mounted Combat will barely do you any good on its own and is thus a feat tax in this case, and Leadership has its own complexities to deal with that you may not be keen on.

Yes, that is the first thing a looked at it but it requires too many feats:
-Honor bound (DL feat)
-Die hard
-Endurance
-Mounted combat
-Leadership (which i was going to take anyway)

With the Divine Metamagic routine, it's not possible or i would have to take two levels of warrior.

Rather than taking Extra Turning after 5th level, I would take Planar Touchstone instead.  Using the Catalogues of Enlightenment touchstone, I'd pull the domain abilities for the Dragonlance Necromancy domain - then you'd have turning attempts from your ability to turn (from normal class levels) AND rebuke (from the feat)!  Most of the time (so long as you have a CHA score of 14 or higher), doing this will net you more turning attempts than Extra Turning would.

Prestige Paladin gives heavy armor proficiency - but you need to waste a feat (Mounted Combat) and some points in ride to get it. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin

As long as you only take the first level, you don't lose any spellcasting ability - though I normally take 3 levels anyway, for Divine Grace and that smite ACF you can get in the place of a mount.  The latter synergizes great with Ordained Champion's smite ability.

If you end up taking any of these options that reduces your casting level, the Practiced Spellcaster feat is a must.  (Cleric 4/Prestige Paladin 3/Ordained Champion 5/full-casting-PrC 8 will put you back 3 casting levels.)

I think Planar Touchstone is not really appropriate for the setting and the character. Prestige Paladin would be a good idea but i don't think the DM will allow it. For i'm there are no Paladin in DL setting just sort of with the Solamnic Knight PrC.

Right now, i'll ask my DM if cloistered cleric is ok or not. If it's not, the choices will be simpler!

[Keldar]

Mithril Fullplate is Medium Armor for all purposes, as long as you have medium armor proficiency you do not take an attack penalty.

[Azoriel]

Mithril Fullplate is Medium Armor for all purposes, as long as you have medium armor proficiency you do not take an attack penalty.

I think he was referring to Cloistered Cleric when he was talking about this (which is only proficient in light armors).  Cloistered Cleric with Righteous Cohort of Kiri-Jolith should do the trick for him, though.