Author Topic: Phantom (MM5) Dark Stalker (FF) = roll two miss chances?  (Read 1413 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Phantom (MM5) Dark Stalker (FF) = roll two miss chances?
« on: February 23, 2013, 03:24:07 AM »
I've got an evil NPC that will be recurring for a while, and so he will have to advance somewhat as my party does.  He started as a Dark Stalker Sepulchral Thief Scout/Telflammar Shadowlord.  It's nifty, because he has two ways to "survive" death.

Anyway, I was looking through the books earlier tonight, and my mind started playing with the Phantom template, and I think it would be amazing to put it on this guy.  However, I'm curious how his incorporeality and the Dark Stalker's Shadow Cloak ability interact.

When he is incorporeal, he will get a 50% miss chance from any corporeal magical source that isn't a force effect.

Shadow Cloak also provides him with a 40% miss chance from being cloaked in magical shadow.

If he were under the effects of both, how would an attack roll with a magical sword be resolved?  Only the 50% miss chance? Both miss chances rolled separately, and failing either one means you missed?

Quote
Shadow Cloak (Su): Three times per day, a dark one can wrap itself in a cloak of shadows that grants it concealment from its foes. In shadows or darkness, the shadow cloak gives the creature nine-tenths concealment (40% miss chance for attackers).  In bright light, the shadow cloak provides only one-half concealment (20% miss chance).  Darkvision does not negate the dark one’s concealment, since the shadow cloak is formed from magical darkness. Creatures that can see in magical darkness, such as devils, do not have a miss chance when striking a dark one.

Quote
...
Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature.

Pardon, it appears I was mistaken.  The incorporeal percentage is not actually a miss chance, but merely a chance to ignore damage.  So, player attacks, and somehow hits his ridiculously high AC (or attacks with a ray, hitting a lower touch AC), then rolls a 40% (20% in bright light) miss chance from concealment, then rolls a 50% chance to see if the phantom ignores the damage anyway... right?

I have a feeling this guy will continue to remain an utter pain in the kiester for a very long time.

Here are his full stats, as he first faced the party last week.  His hit points are crap, but he has DR 15, he's undead (so no crits, and half sneak attack only if my Rogue player flanks him), he almost can't fail a Reflex save, and his immunity to Cold and Electricity gave the big ol' middle finger to my Iot7FV PC's 80 points of electricity damage from his newest warding.
The peculiarities of Phantom letting him keep all his normal armor bonuses and NA bonuses to AC, plus the new deflection modifier from Phantom, and this guy's buffed AC will soon be 39... and shield protects vs. Magic Missile...  and any attempt to disintegrate him will have to get through two percentile rolls.

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Offline NunoM

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Re: Phantom (MM5) Dark Stalker (FF) = roll two miss chances?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 12:54:17 AM »
I think you answered your own question... :tongue

There will be 2 rolls, yes, but not both for miss chances.

The 1st will be a miss chance for the Shadow Cloak concealment (btw, i'm sure you know this can be negated by stuff like blindsight).
If it's a hit, roll a 2nd time for the chance to negate damage for being incorporeal.
Very nasty...

Offline Ithamar

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Re: Phantom (MM5) Dark Stalker (FF) = roll two miss chances?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 06:58:53 PM »
A lot of people like to ignore the "nerf" that Rules Compendium gave this, but here is what it states about incoporeality:

Quote from: Rules Compendium - Incorporeality
For attacks that require attack rolls, the chance to ignore damage is treated as a 50% miss chance. If a creature receives miss chances from multiple sources, such as from being incorporeal and having concealment, they don’t stack. Only the highest miss chance applies.

So just depends on how you want to treat it.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Phantom (MM5) Dark Stalker (FF) = roll two miss chances?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 07:47:40 PM »
Thanks for the info.

I selectively apply stuff from the Rules Compendium, as it is often at odds with the entirety of 3rd edition (like this case).