[3.P] Item that doubles one physical ability score

[Bauglir]

Ah, okay. Yeah, that could use some clarification.

The answer I provided was to the question, "What would be a fair/reasonable price for an item that grants its owner an enhancement bonus to an ability score equal to that character's unmodified base ability score?"

The question you asked in the OP, edited to create a single sentence, was, "What would be a fair/reasonable price for an item that doubles one of its owner's ability scores?"

Hopefully that's a little clearer. And if the question I answered was the question you intended to ask, then this has all been a misunderstanding, for which I apologize, but I maintain that the second question doesn't actually have an answer.

[ImperatorK]

But you answered it. XD
If anything, my question is general enough that it would have more potential answers (that aren't "It's impossible") than your more specified version. That's kinda why it is so general. The only answer that I objected to was "It's impossible" or "It's a bad idea" (although I could have just ignored the second). I learned from my mistakes, believe me.

[Bauglir]

The problem is, your question wasn't general. It was specific. You presented an item description, and asked for its price. You didn't ask for ways to make the item priceable, or balanced. I answered a question related to the one you asked, not the one you did ask or a subset of the one you asked. If you actually want to ask a general question, then, somewhat paradoxically, you need to provide more information in the OP in order to communicate that.

If you want something that's actually balanced, I'd do something that has swift action activation, lasts until the beginning of your next turn, once per day. To make things simpler, it would outright double your score, and would require you to be wearing an item that is giving you an enhancement bonus to the score you're doubling. My gut tells me this is worth between 80,000-100,000, but I wouldn't necessarily trust that without some analysis. You'd want to price it after some other item that all but guarantees success at some particular check. However, it is, at least, an ability that can be fairly reckoned within the context of the rules as they stand.

[ImperatorK]

You're telling me that no specifics make the question too specific to answer? Sorry, but that's just silly.

Whatever. I won't get a definitive answer, but at least I know that it shouldn't cost less than 400k. That's something, I guess.

Thread can be locked.

[Jackinthegreen]

It's more like you have to communicate "I have situation X and want a general answer along the lines of Y" versus "I need an answer to X."

In a lot of your questions and such, you don't communicate what you want very well.  It's quite a visible pattern actually.  Your audience is reading it differently than you intended is one of the things happening.  Thus, I'd probably recommend working on your communication skills because things tend to derail pretty fast when people go into spats over miscommunications and can't be bothered to rephrase something or talk about what's likely being misunderstood.

[Kethrian]

Hmm, a reasonable ability score value to base it on would probably be at least 50.  There are plenty of creatures already printed in the monster manuals that have scores that high or higher.  So that would mean that such an item should be worth... 2.5 million gold.  That sounds reasonable for a price for a magic item a god would actually want.

[ImperatorK]

Oh, what do you know, it actually can be answered.

2.5 million. That's much more than I would ever think, heh. But I get your point. This high price removes it from reach of just anybody, I guess. Not that it would ever be purchasable in a magic mart. The price is more for estimating how much of a character's WBL it should take to have it. It would be a custom item, thus not simply pick-able by a player.

[Bauglir]

Price needs to accomplish two things - ensure it enters the game at the correct level, and ensure that it uses an appropriate fraction of a character's resources at that level and all future levels. If the item flat-out doubles your score, then, at best, 2.5 million accomplishes only the first. As you rise in level, it becomes a vanishingly small part of your wealth, while contributing a consistent amount to your abilities.

So, yeah, 2.5 million is an answer in the same way that 5 is an answer to y = x^2. You could pick literally any other number and it would work just as well.

If you meant something else than what you put in the OP, such as the suggestion I keep making, then it's possibly a fair price, but you'd need to actually run some numbers, which should be fairly straightforward for somebody who actually has access to their book collection (I provided the two functions you need to find the intersection of in an earlier post).

Again, yes, you didn't provide enough information. Concise is not the same thing as open-ended. You provided a specific concept within the rules, and asked for the resources it should consume in relation to other, similar, concepts. "An item that doubles an ability score" is a concept the game rules can already parse, not an overarching category that needs further specification in order to work. You could see an item printed that says, "The wearer of this belt doubles his Strength score for as long as he wears it.", and it's a different item from the one I keep talking about. If you didn't mean to ask about that particular kind of item, you need to specify that you're referring to a category, or you're going to get consistent misunderstandings such as the one that has so long plagued this very thread, where people answer the question you actually asked.

Communicating badly is not an effective strategy for getting useful answers. I don't know how I can be any clearer.

[rasmuswagner]

You're certainly doing that wrong.

Actually I don't.

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

Wrong formula. "multiple similar abilities" are for thematic items, where you get diminishing returns from having more abilities. A buff to melee attacks rolls and damage, a buff to reflex AC and initiative, and a buff to fortitude and HP arenot "similar abilities". They are"cramming more functions into the same item slot", for +50%. The beltof physical perfection is an item that already exists, and extrapolating it to +12 is not hard at all.

And dude, you're obviously not stupid. You already know this. But you're weirdly fixated on a fair, rules-backed price for your gonzo-ass custom magic item.

[ImperatorK]

Buffing an ability score is similar, no, it's identical to buffing an ability score.

[Halinn]

Buffing an ability score is similar, no, it's identical to buffing an ability score.

But extrapolating the formula for an already existing item shows that ability scores do follow the pricing shown by rasmuswagner.

[Kethrian]

Halinn and rasmuswagner, you are forgetting that according to the MIC, certain common abilities, such as deflection/natural armour/armour/resistance/energy resistance/ability score boosts, can be freely stacked without the +50% price increase.

[Garryl]

You're certainly doing that wrong.

Actually I don't.

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

The multiple similar abilities discount is only for things that don't take up space on a character's body.

[Halinn]

Halinn and rasmuswagner, you are forgetting that according to the MIC, certain common abilities, such as deflection/natural armour/armour/resistance/energy resistance/ability score boosts, can be freely stacked without the +50% price increase.

I'll argue that Pathfinder rules supersede MIC rules in this specific case, because there is an existing item that does exactly what we're discussing, that follows the +50% formula

[ImperatorK]

Huh. I stand corrected. It was so straightforward to me that I didn't even think to double-check with existing items. Come to think of it, it even makes perfect sense.

[Ithamar]

Is the item you're looking for simply doubling the score in question, or does it provide a bonus (say enhancement) to the ability score equal to the amount of the current score?  If it is a named bonus, and not just a literal doubling, I could see it being worth slightly less, as then it would not stack with other items and helps limit the ridiculousness a little bit.

Perhaps use the Owl's Insight spell as a guideline.  It gives you an insight bonus to WIS equal to 1/2 CL.  So what would a permanent item of Owl's Insight cost with created at CL 50?  Then use that to help establish the value for all of the stats.