Author Topic: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?  (Read 2175 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« on: March 31, 2013, 04:02:45 PM »
Stream of the Sky and I are arguing w/ folks over at GitP (a futile exercise, I know), and we are of the opinion that a human fighter's weapons and armor would enlarge with the fighter when he is polymorphed into a troll.  Others disagree, and say the weapons and armor would stay Medium-sized, or even merge with your form.

Thoughts?

Base 3.5 rules, of course.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 04:05:08 PM »
Well, if armour or clothing stayed as normal, everyone would either be naked or choked to death after polymorphing, so worn equipment can hardly stay the same. Hmm...

Offline betrayor

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Re: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 04:10:25 PM »
For what is worth FAQ supports their arguement....
From FAQ page 86

What happens to the equipment worn and carried by a
character polymorphed* into another creature capable of
wearing and carrying the same gear? What if the new
creature’s size is different?


Unless stated otherwise, all spells in the polymorph chain
function as described in the alter self spell description, which
states that if the new form is capable of wearing or holding the
item, it remains worn or held; otherwise it melds into the new
form and becomes nonfunctional. A human polymorphed into
another Medium humanoid-shaped form (such as an elf,
grimlock, or bearded devil) can wear or hold all his gear, so it
remains in place.
However, this is one of those times when size definitely
matters, since your gear doesn’t automatically change size as a
result of polymorph. Assuming the new form has appropriate
body locations—for instance, a human polymorphed into a troll
or a pixie—most of your magic items (rings, cloaks, boots, and
other items of magic clothing or jewelry) still fit just fine
regardless of your new size (see “Size and Magic Items” on
page 213 of the DMG).
Nonmagical clothing and accoutrements that don’t fit the
new size meld into the character’s body when he is
polymorphed. (The Sage recommends that DMs err on the side
of leniency when determining what the new form can or can’t
wear.)
Similarly, armor (even magic armor) doesn’t resize to fit
wearers of different sizes. The human described above loses the
benefit of his +1 full plate armor as it melds into his body,
even though the new form is capable of wearing armor.
As long as your new form can hold weapons (that is, it has
hands or other similarly dexterous extremities), you hold on to
whatever weapons you had before the change. However, since
the weapons are no longer of a size appropriate to you, you take
a penalty on attack rolls with them as described on page 113 of
the PH. A human polymorphed into a troll can still hold his
Medium weapons (although they’re now one size category too
small for optimal use and thus he’ll suffer a –2 penalty on
attack rolls). On the plus side, he can now wield that Medium
greatsword with only one hand, meaning he could pick up a
shield or a second weapon to wield simultaneously.
If your barbarian is regularly polymorphed into a troll or
stone giant, you might want to consider carrying an extra Large
weapon for use in those situations.
*The question and answer uses “polymorph” to refer
specifically to spells that rely on the polymorph or alter self
spell to adjudicate their effect (including alter self, polymorph,
polymorph any object, and shapechange), psionic powers based
on the metamorphosis power (including metamorphosis and
greater metamorphosis), and any other effect based on either of
these lists.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 04:23:18 PM »
Worn equipment melds into the new form as per Alter Self if your new form can't wear it.  Since there is nothing in the Alter Self or Polymorph spells about your equipment changing size (like Enlarge Person does), it is usually understood to mean that it doesn't.

If you were a medium creature and you turned into a large troll, then your armor would meld into your new form because armor implicitly doesn't resize (or explicitly via the FAQ).  Other equipment like magical clothing and jewelry are noted as resizing based on the wearer, assuming the wearer has the necessary body slots.

Magical armor, shields, and weapons are noted as not resizing based on the wearer since WotC felt these were the most significant items and thus should have sizing issues.  At least there was the Sizing enhancement from MiC that allowed a weapon to be resized.  I've never seen one done for armor, and it's questionable whether that enhancement would work on shields.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 04:29:12 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 06:51:31 PM »
Yeah, resizing to fit the wearer is not the same thing as being affecting by a size changing spell.  So it comes down to whether enlarge/reduce person set a precedent for all size changing transmutations that affect the target and his gear, or are the exception.  Obviously, the GITP folks think the latter.  I prefer when rules are internally consistent, and I also don't like how their view nerfs polymorph for martials but doesn't really matter much to a wizard (who wears no armor and has no special weapon or weapons feats to care about that over natural attacks).  Being able to buff the party fighter with polymorph is one of the reasons I LIKE the spell, and I can't help but feel like this whole thing is some incredibly misplaced attempt to nerf or rein in polymorph by whatever means a reading of the rules can allow for.  Misplaced because it hurts the wrong people.

*Sigh*  I really don't feel like arguing it in that thread anymore, though.

Please never cite the FAQ for anything, though.  It only helps to legitimize it.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 09:58:25 PM »
WotC rules and rulings have a tendency to not be consistent.  What else is new?

The FAQ does have some legitimate clarifications and some that are crap.  D&D in general is some good, and some bad.

One of the questions I keep wondering about is whether most people think the FAQ sucks when it nerfs something they think should work, but think it's awesome when it's in favor of something they're doing.

Offline betrayor

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Re: Polymorph into a Troll, does your weapon grow in size?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 01:29:58 AM »
Well,I tend to agree with the FAQ and Jackinthegreen,Polymorph takes after alter self not enlarge person,
so the equipment shouldn't resize,I have just quoted because in this specific situation
it seems to have gotten it right......


Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 01:33:53 AM by betrayor »