Cheap item creation and material components.

[Calico]

Can the various methods of cost reduction in item creation reduce the portion of the cost that comes from supplying expensive material components?  Beyond this, are there other ways to cheaply acquire said components?

[Bastian]

Cost reducers generally say that they reduce the cost of the raw materials, which includes those expensive components. However, there are items that say you must include a certain value of material component in them. The only way I can see to resolve this linguistic tension and follow both rules simultaneously is to include the cost of expensive component in the amount to be reduced and then still spend the same amount on that expensive component (it is now just a much larger part of the total cost). If the total cost goes below the cost of the expensive component, then I am not actually sure what would happen, that would be up to the DM I guess.

Note: This is how I have always read it but I am not entirely sure.

[kitep]

From Craft Wand SRD

You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know. Crafting a wand takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a wand is its caster level × the spell level × 750 gp. To craft a wand, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. A newly created wand has 50 charges.

Any wand that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the cost derived from the base price, you must expend fifty copies of the material component or pay fifty times the XP cost.

From this, it's pretty clear that at least with wands, the base/raw material price does NOT include the cost of spell components.

From extraordinary artisan

When determining the gold piece cost in raw materials you need to craft any item, reduce the base price by 25%.

This is one of the cost reducers.  It reduces the base price, but not the spell component price.
I have not checked each cost reducer and each item creation, but I have a feeling they're all similar.  Still, I wouldn't put it past WOTC to include an inconsistency or two.

OTOH, if the cost reducer is something like "must be a wizard", or "must have 5 ranks in jump", or whatever, then the spell component cost IS included in the reduction.

From SRD Magic Item Creation

Other Considerations
Once you have a final cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:

Item Requires Skill to Use
Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.

Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use
Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the cost by 30%.

So the answer is -- sometimes yes, sometimes no.
The real answer is -- go find a bad guy who has the expensive material components and take his stuff 

Good luck!

[nijineko]

The real answer is -- go find a bad guy who has the expensive material components and take his stuff 

Good luck!

or you could go full Munchkin, and not limit yourself to just bad guys.... wasn't there another caster in your party...?

[Bastian]

From Craft Wand SRD

You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know. Crafting a wand takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a wand is its caster level × the spell level × 750 gp. To craft a wand, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. A newly created wand has 50 charges.

Any wand that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the cost derived from the base price, you must expend fifty copies of the material component or pay fifty times the XP cost.

From this, it's pretty clear that at least with wands, the base/raw material price does NOT include the cost of spell components.

The base and raw material prices are two different things, a component counts as part of the raw materials used to make the item.

From extraordinary artisan

When determining the gold piece cost in raw materials you need to craft any item, reduce the base price by 25%.

This is one of the cost reducers.  It reduces the base price, but not the spell component price.
I have not checked each cost reducer and each item creation, but I have a feeling they're all similar.  Still, I wouldn't put it past WOTC to include an inconsistency or two.

They are at least somewhat inconsistent. Take Magical Artisan for example.

[Calico]

At this point I am inclined to believe that "raw material" is a specific bit of jargon that does not include any pertinent expensive material components.  However they totally factor into the normal cost, which makes me happy about the specific language in Magical Artisan   I'll probably scan through the various methods of cost reduction here shortly to examine their wording.  My thanks to all of you for the prompt replies 

[kitep]

At this point I am inclined to believe that "raw material" is a specific bit of jargon that does not include any pertinent expensive material components.  However they totally factor into the normal cost, which makes me happy about the specific language in Magical Artisan   I'll probably scan through the various methods of cost reduction here shortly to examine their wording.  My thanks to all of you for the prompt replies 

I don't know how thorough your scan will be, but when you're done, can you post the results in the Complete Cost Reduction Handbook Discussion Thread?  Seems like this stuff should be in there.  Thanks.

Edit: To be clear, post it in the linked DISCUSSION thread.  Let the handbook writer add it to the handbook.

[kitep]

At this point I am inclined to believe that "raw material" is a specific bit of jargon that does not include any pertinent expensive material components.  However they totally factor into the normal cost, which makes me happy about the specific language in Magical Artisan  

I must be missing something.  Magical Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan both refer to the "base" price, which does not seem to include the expensive material components.  It does not refer to the normal cost or final cost which would.  What's to be happy about?

[Calico]

Hrmmm, is FRCS or PGtF more recent?  I was looking at the latter which is phrased as such...

...When you make an item with that feat, you pay only 75% of the normal cost to create the item.

Anyhow, the rest of my search was not terribly fruitful.  Requiring a skill/race/alignment all seem to work, as did the discount from membership in the darkspire college/the one and the five, the discount from successfully using the Artificer's Dump, and the discount Kaorti can get by spending more XP.  Also the Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith and Shield Dwarf Warder feats would work were the DM appropriately lenient as mentioned in the Cost Reduction Guide.  The Hammer of the Magesmith however would not.  I did not examine the rest of the specific cost reducers, but none of the other general cost reducers were applicable, all referencing raw materials and base cost for their reductions.

[Bastian]

Hrmmm, is FRCS or PGtF more recent?  I was looking at the latter which is phrased as such...

...When you make an item with that feat, you pay only 75% of the normal cost to create the item.

Anyhow, the rest of my search was not terribly fruitful.  Requiring a skill/race/alignment all seem to work, as did the discount from membership in the darkspire college/the one and the five, the discount from successfully using the Artificer's Dump, and the discount Kaorti can get by spending more XP.  Also the Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith and Shield Dwarf Warder feats would work were the DM appropriately lenient as mentioned in the Cost Reduction Guide.  The Hammer of the Magesmith however would not.  I did not examine the rest of the specific cost reducers, but none of the other general cost reducers were applicable, all referencing raw materials and base cost for their reductions.

The Player's Guide to Faerun is more recent.

At this point I am inclined to believe that "raw material" is a specific bit of jargon that does not include any pertinent expensive material components.  However they totally factor into the normal cost, which makes me happy about the specific language in Magical Artisan   I'll probably scan through the various methods of cost reduction here shortly to examine their wording.  My thanks to all of you for the prompt replies 

I don't know how thorough your scan will be, but when you're done, can you post the results in the Complete Cost Reduction Handbook Discussion Thread?  Seems like this stuff should be in there.  Thanks.

Edit: To be clear, post it in the linked DISCUSSION thread.  Let the handbook writer add it to the handbook.

Err... He hardly needs to post it in the discussion thread since I am part of this conversation.

[nijineko]

I don't know how thorough your scan will be, but when you're done, can you post the results in the Complete Cost Reduction Handbook Discussion Thread?  Seems like this stuff should be in there.  Thanks.

Edit: To be clear, post it in the linked DISCUSSION thread.  Let the handbook writer add it to the handbook.

Err... He hardly needs to post it in the discussion thread since I am part of this conversation.

perhaps they just missed the obvious?

[Calico]

Dug up the rest of the specific cost reducers:

Templates (DMGII): explicitly do not reduce component costs.
Portal Master: 50% "normal cost" but does not stack with magical artisan.
The Caster Shield is only for raw materials and is another instance where that term is differentiated from material components.
Blood Artisan: 75% "normal cost" for Magic Arms and Armor as well as Wondrous Items, but all items you create have a randomly determined curse.

Fey Cherry wood's phrasing was somewhat ambiguous:

... items made from fey cherry wood cost 10% less gp and XP to enhance magically.

(Also Bastian, you have the Dragon Mag number as 257 in your guide.)

Unbound Scroll has almost identical phrasing, followed by mentioning that this discount stacks with that of Extraordinary Artisan which does not discount material component costs.

Tangentially related would be that different item types require different amounts of material components for crafting.  Wands and Staves of course require 50 times the amount it would cost to cast the pertinent spell once.  Weapons, Rods, and Wondrous Items do not require material components at all for their crafting processes.  Potions will only require enough for one casting.  Armor and scrolls have me a bit hung up though: either they only need enough of the appropriate component for one casting, or they need enough components to cast the spell each day of crafting and I'm not sure which it is.

EDIT: Oh, and I get that it's there for thoroughness, but is it even possible to get Divine Rank as a PC?  It has a similar "the cost" wording to fey cherry wood and unbound scroll but I somehow don't think it much matters...

EDIT: (mostly for my own use as I still pop back here every so often) At some point I figured out that crafting armor does not require material components for the pertinent spells, and crafting a scroll would require one copy of the appropriate component.  Darned if I can remember what I pulled this conclusion from though.

[Bastian]

Dug up the rest of the specific cost reducers:

Templates (DMGII): explicitly do not reduce component costs.
Portal Master: 50% "normal cost" but does not stack with magical artisan.
The Caster Shield is only for raw materials and is another instance where that term is differentiated from material components.
Blood Artisan: 75% "normal cost" for Magic Arms and Armor as well as Wondrous Items, but all items you create have a randomly determined curse.

Fey Cherry wood's phrasing was somewhat ambiguous:

... items made from fey cherry wood cost 10% less gp and XP to enhance magically.

(Also Bastian, you have the Dragon Mag number as 257 in your guide.)

Unbound Scroll has almost identical phrasing, followed by mentioning that this discount stacks with that of Extraordinary Artisan which does not discount material component costs.

Tangentially related would be that different item types require different amounts of material components for crafting.  Wands and Staves of course require 50 times the amount it would cost to cast the pertinent spell once.  Weapons, Rods, and Wondrous Items do not require material components at all for their crafting processes.  Potions will only require enough for one casting.  Armor and scrolls have me a bit hung up though: either they only need enough of the appropriate component for one casting, or they need enough components to cast the spell each day of crafting and I'm not sure which it is.

EDIT: Oh, and I get that it's there for thoroughness, but is it even possible to get Divine Rank as a PC?  It has a similar "the cost" wording to fey cherry wood and unbound scroll but I somehow don't think it much matters...

Thanks. Fixed the fey cherry wood mistake, added this to the to-be-further-integrated section of the handbook, and added your name to the credits list.

Edit: Only if you use the Ice Assassin nut-pun method or via DM fiat.