Author Topic: Dragon Gestalt build help  (Read 5217 times)

Offline widow

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Dragon Gestalt build help
« on: June 26, 2013, 01:18:24 AM »
Starting a new campaign this week with some unexpected rules.
1)  Everyone has to play a True Dragon.  All LA is dropped from the dragon and you advance by dragon HD.
2) Semi-Gestalt, everyone gets class levels in addition to the dragon HD.  All BAB, Saves, and Skill points are determined by dragon HD unless you play a rogue which has more skill points.
3)  Starting level 6
4)  All books and Dragon magazine are available (including Unearthed Arcania).  Other third party official books are (Dragon Lance, Kingdoms of Kalamar, etc.) are generally excluded.
5)  This is a side game and will be more hack and slash focused, so my usual social skill route not too useful.
6)  Templates are allowed and will take the place of class levels, no effect on dragon HD though.  These could be useful, especially for early levels that are open.
The other party member is playing a Shadow Dragon Cleric Walker in the Waste with some custom spell-fire feats that allow for quickened absorption and spending spell fire to restore spell slots (scary in combination with unlimited warlock self drain).

My current build idea's is to play a Steel dragon from Dragons of Faerun or the Tome Dragon from Dragon Magazine #343.  Both have lots of racial spell casting that can be augmented with concurrent Sorcerer or Spell casting PrC class levels to keep the caster level equal to HD.  The Steel dragon gets 11 caster levels by level 19 and has full access to the cleric list in addition to the sorc list.  The tome dragon has 13 caster levels by 18, and some racial metamagic reduction feats.  Probably go the way of Alternative Sourced spell, divine Metamagic Persistent especially since the DM does not like to use dispel or disjunction on characters.  The question is what other classes to mix in?  I have not played in awhile and cannot come up with a decent half-progression spelling casting PrC that would not suffer the usual dread caster level loss.  One option would be to go Eldrich Master from Dragon 280 for more spells known and additional spell lists, mixed with Heirophant levels for bonus metamagic:

Steel Dragon
Cleric 1/Sorc 4/ Eldrich Master 8/ Heirophant 2/5 Spell Casting PrC (Not in this order).

Tome Dragon
Cleric 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Sorc 1/XX 2/ Eldrich Master 8/ Heirophant 2/5 Spell Casting PrC (Not in this order).

Cleric is for Turn undead and DN for Rebuke undead.  There is a spell-hoarding dragon template that changes the spell casting to Wizard based spell preparation which is also available. 

The only other idea I have is to leave everything to chance and play the Brainstealer Dragon from Dragon Mag # 337 and go Illithaid Savant with some Thrallherd for targeted things to eat.  Factotum is always a nice mix with Int builds, but are there any other thoughts?  I don’t want to miss the chance to play something weird since many of the caster levels are covered by some of these dragons.

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 01:31:50 PM »
Is loredrake allowed?  Two free levels of casting sounds good.

My issue with Eldrich Master is that with the way sorcerer casting works, adding a spell list wouldn't also add it to spells known.

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike tend to be good on dragons.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 01:38:20 PM by Rebel7284 »

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2413
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 02:35:37 PM »
mercury dragon...

sand shaper would add spells known, could even play as a dragon with sand affinity for other interesting synergies.

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2413
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 02:37:38 PM »
mercury dragon?

sand shaper would add spells known, could even play as a dragon with sand affinity for other interesting synergies.

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 762
  • Former Lord of the Kitchen Sink
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 03:34:39 AM »
dracolich is only la+4 (draconomicon), some niiice goodies in there :twitch
The Emperor
Can you find the Wumpus?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 06:42:21 PM »
iirc wtf the last Dragons Of X book
had the Wyrm Of War thingy that
traded a Sorc slot for a ToB thing.
Works well with hack/slash + gestalt.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »
iirc wtf the last Dragons Of X book
had the Wyrm Of War thingy that
traded a Sorc slot for a ToB thing.
Works well with hack/slash + gestalt.

Kryn? totally wrong spelling.  Anyway, Loredrake is still better. :3

Offline widow

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 12:13:54 AM »
Is loredrake allowed?  Two free levels of casting sounds good.

My issue with Eldrich Master is that with the way sorcerer casting works, adding a spell list wouldn't also add it to spells known.

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike tend to be good on dragons.

Eberron archtypes are very nice, but I am not sure about Loredrake.  As it stands, I need 4 Sorcerer levels to pair with the first 6 racial dragon HD on the steel dragon.  Loredrake would drop that to 2, which would allow for two other base class levels (Battle Dancer and Marshal maybe).  Child of Eberron might be better on the Steel dragon to add the druid spell list access or any of the cleric spell casting list archtypes to the Tome Dragon.  I might be more partial to a Forgotten Realms setting though if the free metamagic trick from casting in a Church of Mystra works (with an Acorn of Far Travel spell of course).  That would eliminate the need for divine metamagic.

Eldrich master both grants spell access and adds some spells known from levels 1st through 5th.  4 levels on the Steel dragon would add 5 1st, 4 2nd, 4 3rd, and 2 4th level bonus spells known.  Not as many as the Sand Shaper recommendation, but you get to pick which bonus spells you get.  Not to mention that Eldrich master boosts your effective caster level for spell level based effects which is not the same a caster progression so stacks in gestalt.  Also I could go with wizard spell casting from the spell hoarding dragon magazine psychosis, which would mean I could get all the spells I can buy.

mercury dragon...

sand shaper would add spells known, could even play as a dragon with sand affinity for other interesting synergies.

Not sure about the Mercury Dragon recommendation.  It has far less spell casting levels and does not add anything over the steel dragon except different domains.

dracolich is only la+4 (draconomicon), some niiice goodies in there :twitch

Dracolich is very nice, but the other player is toying with this template or the Walker in the Waste PrC.

I guess there are in the running:
Steel Dragon with Lore Drake Archetype
Cleric 1/Sorc 2/Battle Dancer 1/ Marshal 1/ Eldrich Master 4/ Heirophant 5/6 Spell Casting PrC (Not in this order).
Escalation Mage maybe fitting following the Shadow for Lore Drake, but not too impressed by it.

Tome Dragon with Cleric  Sovereign Archetype
Cleric 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Sorc 1/Battle Dancer 1/ Marshal 1/ Eldrich Master 4/ Heirophant 5/6 Spell Casting PrC (Not in this order).

Offline linklord231

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3352
  • The dice are trying to kill me
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 01:24:49 AM »
Use the Spellhoarding template from Dragon 313 - it changes your Sorc casting to Wiz casting, and gives you some other freebies.
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 05:14:58 PM »
iirc wtf the last Dragons Of X book
had the Wyrm Of War thingy that
traded a Sorc slot for a ToB thing.
Works well with hack/slash + gestalt.

Kryn? totally wrong spelling.  Anyway, Loredrake is still better. :3

Dragons of Eberron ... (I was just returning from vay-kay = iffy)
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4976.0
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2413
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Dragon Gestalt build help
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 04:07:17 PM »
mercury dragon...

sand shaper would add spells known, could even play as a dragon with sand affinity for other interesting synergies.

Not sure about the Mercury Dragon recommendation.  It has far less spell casting levels and does not add anything over the steel dragon except different domains.

a player of mine has managed to turn its speed rating into something of an advantage in my game. plus the mirror bit has been used to advantage a time or two as well.... ^^