Author Topic: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?  (Read 77957 times)

Offline JaronK

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #160 on: November 29, 2011, 05:55:35 PM »
Heh, you forgot Mechanicus Gear (Manual of the Planes or Planar Handbook).  +10 AC, 0 Max Dex (good with Mithral).  1750gp, imposes extra movement penalties (but Dwarfs and mounted warriors don't care).

Also, Amulet of Natural Armor is missing, as a cheap option.

Can't believe I forgot Rings of Protection.

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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #161 on: November 29, 2011, 05:58:24 PM »
Heh, you forgot Mechanicus Gear (Manual of the Planes or Planar Handbook).  +10 AC, 0 Max Dex (good with Mithral).  1750gp, imposes extra movement penalties (but Dwarfs and mounted warriors don't care).

Also, Amulet of Natural Armor is missing, as a cheap option.

Can't believe I forgot Rings of Protection.

JaronK

Ah, thank you, I've been looking for the exact stats for Mechanicus Gear (for some reason I was thinking it was a Dragon Mag thing) - I guess I should put the NA amulet on, though with Wands of Barkskin so cheap...

Offline littha

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #162 on: November 29, 2011, 06:09:44 PM »
There is also the cost/benefit of LA in this as Natural armor is one of the few places that LA can actually pass Class levels in usefulness.

Mineral Warrior gives +3 for 1 LA, this could be bought off by level 10. I am having trouble locating optimal templates for natural armour because nobody seemingly bothered listing it in any handbooks. Mineral warrior also has other benefits of course (DR 8/Adamantine is awesome).

Evolved Necropolitan is also 1 LA (+ Necropolitan) and nets you +1 NA but also gets you up to a 7th level SLA 1/day. Circle of Death would be fun at level 2...


Lycanthropes are again higher ECL but can give a massive bonus to Natural Armor. Wereboar at +6 ECL gets you 8 natural armor and DR 10/silver... 8 natural armor is priced at 1.2 million gp.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 06:26:53 PM by littha »

Offline JaronK

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #163 on: November 29, 2011, 06:11:36 PM »
Half Minotaur gives +4 NA (+2 basic, +2 for becoming large) for 1LA.  Obviously you lose one armor for the size increase, but it's still the best... especially with the insane Str and Con boost.

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Offline lans

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #164 on: November 29, 2011, 06:14:47 PM »
We might want to consider fighting defensively and expertise, expecially for when the  opposing creature has already dealt you a chunk of damage

In a world of Leap Attacking Shock Troopers who Pounce people, do you really want to walk away from your enemy?

Offline littha

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #165 on: November 29, 2011, 06:47:39 PM »
More on the Lycanthrope idea:

WereOctpus gets you 4 natural armor at ECL +5 but also gets you some fun abilities 10'/10'/10' cloud of total concealment as a free action and move 200' a round as a full round action with no AoO's. These are usable even while in humanoid form and apparently even when you aren't in water.

WerePorpoise gets you the same +4 Na for ECL +5 but gets you 120' blindsight instead.


Will go through the other monster manuals later...

Offline JaronK

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #166 on: November 29, 2011, 06:57:32 PM »
We might want to consider fighting defensively and expertise, expecially for when the  opposing creature has already dealt you a chunk of damage

I dunno, if you're doing that you've usually stopped dealing any offensive damage... that's a problem I'd say.

Quote
In a world of Leap Attacking Shock Troopers who Pounce people, do you really want to walk away from your enemy?

Stock monsters aren't usually Leap Attacking Shock Troopers, though.  But yes, "just walk away" is rarely a viable option.

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Offline zugschef

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #167 on: November 29, 2011, 07:05:35 PM »
For AC, how about taking up Pearls of Power to feed the cleric for Greater Magic Vestments on shield and armor? That keeps that bit of cash free to reinvest into other wealth, like that cloak there.
A pearl of power costs about the same as a +3 armor, it isn't until +4 or +5 that you see savings unless you also want armor properties.
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Offline lans

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #168 on: November 29, 2011, 08:05:14 PM »
We might want to consider fighting defensively and expertise, expecially for when the  opposing creature has already dealt you a chunk of damage

I dunno, if you're doing that you've usually stopped dealing any offensive damage... that's a problem I'd say.

Quote
In a world of Leap Attacking Shock Troopers who Pounce people, do you really want to walk away from your enemy?

Stock monsters aren't usually Leap Attacking Shock Troopers, though.  But yes, "just walk away" is rarely a viable option.

JaronK

Sorry, I was referring to the PC doing that, and using the threat of him being able to do that to lock down the creature attacking him, even while fighting defensively with expertise.

Offline Shadowhunter

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #169 on: November 29, 2011, 08:09:50 PM »
We might want to consider fighting defensively and expertise, expecially for when the  opposing creature has already dealt you a chunk of damage

I dunno, if you're doing that you've usually stopped dealing any offensive damage... that's a problem I'd say.

There's Deadly Defense in Comp. Scoundrel. You can even look at it as a minor PA. -2 to hit for +1d6 damage and +2 AC, this is usually a good trade. So if you've been forced to pick up Combat Expertise somewhere along the line, it might be a viable option.
It works with all light weapons and any Finessable weapon.
Given that the most probable build to use Combat Expertise is one that picked up Improved Trip and the best tripping weapon is the Spiked Chain, which is Finesseable, this is a good thing.

Offline Kethrian

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #170 on: November 29, 2011, 08:20:03 PM »
Okay, while I go through to get the full attack bonuses, I'll list their standard ACs as well, so that you can determine whether Combat Expertise or the like will be viable options at that level, too.
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Offline JaronK

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #171 on: November 29, 2011, 08:21:49 PM »
If you can (and I know this is asking a bit much), list their damage per hit as well (average).  That'll tell us how much damage you'd take at various AC values (and thus how many hits you can safely risk).

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Offline Kethrian

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #172 on: November 29, 2011, 08:27:59 PM »
Good idea.  I'll add that too.  12-hour night shift gives me plenty of time to get it all done.

I guess I'll just make a new post for it all, and put each book into a table, instead of just editing the last one.
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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #173 on: November 30, 2011, 01:44:27 AM »
I think I'm pretty much finished with the non-setting stuff; I'm actually tempted to make a handbook out of this now^^

For ridiculous AC stacking, not surprisingly the Archivist is probably going to be the winner for that one.  Though, it might end up getting edged out by the Archivist/Binder/Anima Mage combo.

But, even without worrying about persisted spells, any type of gish, or even half casters like paladin or ranger should have no problem hitting the target numbers - same for anyone with with decent UMD  (Eternal Wand of alter self is probably the standout item - 2210g to make: a pretty sweet deal for +6 to a hard to get armor type)

Still more to do, I'll keep updating as I go. 

Offline Kethrian

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #174 on: November 30, 2011, 02:40:13 AM »
Okay, here's the updated and much more detailed list for CR 10 monsters.  I did not include crit range and multipliers, DR, energy resistane, most immunities, non-offensive SLAs or abilities, or fast healing unless it is an exceptional amount.  I also did not list damage for rake/rend/constrict, or list any feats other than PA (power attack) and improved trip/disarm/grapple.  Damage is a total average, regardless of if it has bonus energy damage, with fractions rounded down.  Some creature types have been mentioned, mostly  for immunities, plus giant for dwarf dodge bonus. 

Note: as true dragons do not come with feats preassigned, I gave them all Multi-Attack in the calculations.

MM 1
(click to show/hide)

MM 2
(click to show/hide)

MM 3
(click to show/hide)

MM 4
(click to show/hide)

MM 5
(click to show/hide)
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Offline veekie

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #175 on: November 30, 2011, 03:34:00 AM »
Looks like blocking the first attack is a lost cause for most creatures, but you can stop the subsequent ones with much less investment.
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Offline lans

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #176 on: November 30, 2011, 08:40:47 AM »
The highest attack is 25*, so we can get on the RNG scale pretty easy, and if things are using PA then armor becomes more worthwhile as a pseudo damage reduction.

*Not counting MM2

Offline Kethrian

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Re: How do y'all feel about the concept of rocket tag in 3.5?
« Reply #177 on: November 30, 2011, 09:07:44 AM »
And don't forget, the only ones with a higher attack than +25 are animals, they can be OHKO'd with a simple Ray of Stupidity.
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