Author Topic: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!  (Read 5831 times)

Offline Forthefunofit

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Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« on: October 10, 2013, 08:56:19 PM »
Hello!

I have joined a game that I really want to do well in and want to tap into the collective genius of this board. The game rules are here is you want all the nitty gritty: http://rpol.net/display.cgi?gi=43098&ti=934&date=1325846543

Books available:
  • PHB, PHB 2
  • Complete series
  • MM (1, 2, 3, 4)
  • Expanded Psionics Handbook
  • Tome of Battle (TOB)
  • Spell Compendium
  • Libris Mortis
  • Unearthed Arcana (no gestalt builds)
Other Rules of Interest:
  • Start at ECL 5 & 20k gold & 36 point buy
  • Tournament goes all the way to level 20 and someone has already made it
  • Templates and races with racial HD are allowed
  • Modified LA buyoff is ALLOWED!!! Need 6 class levels for +1 LA buyoff & 9 levels for +2 LA
  • Flaws are allowed; up to 2
  • Arenas are painfully small, at around 100x100ft and 40 ft high with a 20 ft pillar in the center. You can not leave the arena or plane
  • There are a number of house rules and additional material allowed. See link if you want details
  • Options outside the books listed above are allowed on an exception basis but I would prefer not to rely on DM discretion
  • Magic = Psionics
  • DM is allowing "moderate" free action abuse
  • You typically get 2 prep rounds before combat. However you can start with any buffs that have a duration >= 24 hours
  • Can only craft magic items that have been described in a source book. No craft wonderous item abuse.  :shakefist

The character sheets for competitors are hidden, but the top contenders are a druid, multi-class spiked chain using gish (swordsage or warmage?) and a sorcerer. Summoners appear to be doing quite well. Essentially every decent character can fly.

I am comfortable playing any type of character, and I am sure that I could build a very strong divine caster on my own. What I really want is something that is nearly broken. A +2 LA template and 2 flaws are almost certainly a starting point.

There are a number of spells/feats/PrC that are banned. See list here:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 09:33:32 PM by Forthefunofit »

Offline JollyGreenGargant

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 09:13:00 PM »
Should we assume that custom made magic items are also banned?  (classic example is the item of at-will True Strike for 2k gold)
Also, why is the DMG not on the list of allowed books?

Offline Forthefunofit

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 09:32:19 PM »
Should we assume that custom made magic items are also banned?  (classic example is the item of at-will True Strike for 2k gold)
Also, why is the DMG not on the list of allowed books?
You are correct. Can take craft magic item feats, but can only create items that have been described in other sources, nothing custom made. 

This was also my first thought, but craft wondrous item abuse is specifically prohibited. I will update the initial thread.

Burning xp to have better gear for my character level is still a viable strategy however. PvP matches are determined by character level, not by total experience earned. Not sure how to best implement this yet though.

Offline Iainuki

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 10:19:13 PM »
This isn't really my area of expertise, but looking at the banned list, here's what I see that you can to use to break the game that's not banned: partial character replacement (polymorph et al.), some sources of action multiplication (celerity from the PH2, some others), some effects that create other creatures (simulacrum), and some no-save-just-dies (fleshshiver from the SC).  Beyond that, I'd look into maximizing your initiative and save DCs and throw SoDs, with as much action multiplication as you can manage.

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 10:44:23 PM »
Conjurer with Abrupt Jaunt has pretty nice survivability early on.  At later levels, you have access to Celerity and all of SpC.... Seems good.

Offline dna1

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 12:07:31 AM »
Hmm that seems cool.
So do you just want different builds or did you have something specific in mind?

Heres a question.
You said starting at level 5 but going up to level 20. Does that mean your taking one character and doing a battle at every level? Or does that mean you can bring in a new character for each different match?




Roses are Red. Gaming is fun. You're over encumbered and cannot Run.

Offline Forthefunofit

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 11:24:51 AM »
Thank you Rebel7284 & Iainuki. These ideas will likely get utilized. Abrupt Jaunt was house ruled from a free to a swift action but is still pretty good.

Hmm that seems cool.
So do you just want different builds or did you have something specific in mind?

Heres a question.
You said starting at level 5 but going up to level 20. Does that mean your taking one character and doing a battle at every level? Or does that mean you can bring in a new character for each different match?

Same character for the entire tourney. Gets xp & gold based on challenger CR.

I am looking for a build with enough feat and ability synergy to gain an unfair advantage. Something like the Jumplomancer or the Übercharger. I'm not certain that something this awesome is possible with these books but anyone pointing me in the right direction will be greatly appreciated and will have the character named after you.  :)

Offline Nezkrul

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 05:49:01 PM »
Well, the DM banned a lot of spells that are used to create magic items in the DMG, so make sure you "inform" him that those players with high level characters don't "buy" said magic items since the spells required to create them are "banned"  (attribute tomes require wish/miracle/reality revision) so no inherent bonuses)

I'd say a good build would be one that doesn't die, because if you don't die the others will run out of resources trying to kill you.  So maximize your saves, ac, hitpoints, and damage/effect mitigation (like 24 hour long greater blink with persistent spell metamagic)

Offline Eviltedzies

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 09:33:16 PM »
While it might not be immediately accessible or even viable at level 5, Haunt Shift abuse can create some very amusing characters.

Sadly I noted that Stormwrack is not on the approved list. Otherwise I could suggest a way to create a really hard to kill undead character.

A fairly solid niche tactic could be abusing the Destructive Retribution [Corpsecrafter] & Invisible Spell metamagic feats.

A necropolitain template or the Tomb Tainted Soul feat also works well with this combo.

Behold THE Batman!

Build Notes (Assuming level 5 Cleric (You can swap cleric for other things if you want): Now you might be asking why Destructive Retribution? Well to put it simply you are going to prepare a mobile kamikaze squad to engage your enemies.

Animate Dead's material cost is 1 onyx gem worth 25gp per HD of the creature.
Bat's have a HD of 1d8* (1/4). Now this is where you as a DM come in. Since they are getting only 1/4 the HD wouldn't it make practical sense that the cost should also be reduced by 1/4? A weak creature is easier to animate than a stronger one, hence the cost increase per HD. So from a logical stand point the reverse should be true as well. If you use this option it only costs you 6g 25s worth of onyx per bat you animate.

Using Animate Dead, modified by invisible spell, in a Desecrated area with an alter devoted to your god we animate as many zombie bats as we see fit. Now you have a hoarde of diminutive, flying, 1d6 negative energy stealth bombs. Due to the wording of Invisible spell your zombie would now be permenantly invisible. (DM interpretation pending) Add that that you can store all your diminuative undead in a bag of holding!

Average character wealth by level for a 5th level character is 9,000g. If we charge 6g.25s per bat then for a meager 100g we can have 16 bat zombies that each do 1d6 negative energy. That is 16d6 negative energy damage for 100g. Considering Acid flasks (1d6 acid) are 10g a pop and alchemist fire (1d6+1) is 20g a pop. Getting 1d6 negative energy in a 10ft blast for 6.25g a pop is well worth the price. Especially since your source of damage is mobile and invisible. Even if you charge the normal 25g per bat the fact that they are mobile AND Invisible makes the price worth it.

~Pre-Battle Tactics~
1. Command at least 5 animated zombie bats.
2. Animate your maximum number of undead. (Should be 20 HD worth. So at least 20 bats or 80 bats if DM says the 1/4 of a d8 counts as only 1/4 a HD..)
3. Precast Deeper Darkness on at least 2 of the bats. (It lasts 1 day/level. Refresh as needed)
4. Persistant Spell Ebon Eyes on yourself. This will allow you to use your deeper darkness as full cover. Alternatively, you could persistant spell an invisible spelled Spiritual Weapon spell. This would give you an invisible weapon capable of assaulting the enemies and it is difficult to destroy short of a dispel.
5. Purchase 20 eggshell grenades of dust (200g) and instruct 20 of your animated bats to hold them. (Or purchase 80 if DM allows more bats)
6. Store your bats in a bag of holding.

~Battle Tactics~
1st round: Regardless of your initiative, open your bag of holding inside out as a move action, thereby releasing all 25 of your bats. It also releases both the bats with Deeper Darkness precasted on them. As a free action command your 20 bats with eggshell grenades to "egg bomb" the enemies and then have all but the ones with Deeper darkness attack them. Each eggshell grenade that hits an enemy blinds them for 1d4 rounds with no save. Anyone within 5ft of it must make a DC 10 fort of be blinded for 1 round. As your standard action, cast Silence on one of your 5 commanded bats and then use a free action to have it circle the enemies that look like casters. The silence should help deal with casters as well as possibly preventing the enemies from working together. Keep the remaining 4 commanded bats clinging to your person as backup healing.

(Why blind them when they already have full miss chance from Deeper Darkness? A few reasons.... if they somehow can see in magical darkness blindness negates this, if they dispel both of them somehow blindness would still be in effect, or if they somehow stumble outside the radius.)

P.S. Sorry for the poorly formatted post.

Offline SanCom

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 01:46:30 AM »
fell draining optimization is always good for "just die already".  Throw on the negative levels, keep your wight friends.  This is provided that they are living enemies.

Offline DavidWL

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 01:30:08 AM »
Initial thoughts looking at the sources:

Spellstitch is a +1 LA
   Necropolitan abuse ...
Unearthed Arcana
   Spontaneous Metamagic - Extra Spell Slots
   Spell Points
   Item Familiars

I'd say:
* Spellstiched Necropolitan created in Descecrated area made with corpsecrafter feats (note - spellstiched abilities are Sp, costing no GP or exp)
* See: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147848 but no Dread Necromancer because of sources
* Wizard 4, with Spontaneous Metamagic and Spell Points variants from UA
* Abrupt Jaunt
* 2 Flaws

Best,
David

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Help me dominate a 3.5 PVP arena game!
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 04:47:16 PM »
A safe assumption to make, is the "DM" will issue more nerfs.
Some of which won't make any sense,
some will impact your build maybe massively.
(* dm means the various arena losers, maybe the dm's girlfriend, etc)


Dive through Bunko's and get lots of them, so that
when (not if) the ban hammer hits you, you've got other tricks.
Your codpiece is a mimic.