CO challenge Break this houserule #3:bloodlines and LA bought with Fighter feats

[JohnnyMayHymn]

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1:  No points are given to trolls
2:  This contest is open indefinitely, thread necros are encouraged
3:  Builds are judged on Creativity, Borkedness, Rules-Clarity, Something Else

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Creativity: How unique, elegant or absurd the build is (mechanics and fluff).
Borkedness: How cheesy the build is (new cheese warrants mad props).
Rules-Clarity:  How straightforeward the build is (no flame wars plz).
Something Else:  Whatever other arbitrary criteria the judge happens to have an opinion on(bonus points to the judges with humorous criterion).

4:  Everyone is a judge, go nuts.

For the 3rd arbitrarily reoccurring CO challenge Break this houserule, as the title suggests, levels of bloodline from UA and/or LA from templates can be bought off with fighter feats(as if using LA buyoff).

Other classes that get bonus feats off of the fighter list, or 'as a fighter' can use this option as well. (feat rogue, etc...)

For example, a first level fighter can use it's first bonus fighter feat to get LA+1 for free(from a template or race), she may then gain an additional +1 LA(or a bloodline level) for free if she choses to use her 2nd level fighter bonus feat(at second level). 

Using this ability does not raise the characters ecl.

Using this ability does not waive any additional requirements for templates.

This rule could also be easily written as a feat which would simply be added to the list that a fighter can choose from.  I'm feeling too lazy to type up right now, feel free to do so if you feel so inclined.  Or I will do it later.

[Nytemare3701]

This rule could also be easily written as a feat which would simply be added to the list that a fighter can choose from.  I'm feeling too lazy to type up right now, feel free to do so if you feel so inclined.  Or I will do it later.

I wanted to get something done before I went to bed so my shitty sick day doesn't feel like a waste. Have a feat.

Incorporate Potential[Fighter]
Prerequisite: May only be taken as a fighter's bonus feat.
Benefit: Your martial training gives you an edge in incorporating newfound sources of power. Reduce the level adjustment of a template by one (To a minimum of +0), or gain xp equal to the XP spent gaining a bloodline level.

[DaCraw]

This rule could also be easily written as a feat which would simply be added to the list that a fighter can choose from.  I'm feeling too lazy to type up right now, feel free to do so if you feel so inclined.  Or I will do it later.

I wanted to get something done before I went to bed so my shitty sick day doesn't feel like a waste. Have a feat.

Incorporate Potential[Fighter]
Prerequisite: May only be taken as a fighter's bonus feat.
Benefit: Your martial training gives you an edge in incorporating newfound sources of power. Reduce the level adjustment of a template by one (To a minimum of +0), or gain xp equal to the XP spent gaining a bloodline level.

Heh, when I first saw that I didn't see the "(to a minimum of +0)" clause, and started thinking up ways that THAT could end up broken. I think negative LA may even have more problems than negative metamagic level adjustment.

ECL10 Fighter21 with epic feats? That might almost bring them back in line with casters. Almost. 

[PsyBomb]

First thing I can think of is a Tauric Ubercharger template stacking for Strength and adding Phrenic for Deep Impact plus Fission

[altpersona]

not making any sorta broken statement here, just two observations.

fighter 2/ feat rouge 2 (or martial monk)/ feat wiz 6/EK1

has 9? bonus fighter feats. cl 10 w/ feat lvl4 spells.

i checked srd variant classes and ckeep pdfs, thats about all i found.

thats the first bit...

the second bit,

i think the only problem w/ it is the usefulness to non fighters. do cl20/lvl9 spell casters 'need' 12? free LA?

for Proper fighters, i like it.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Dealing with just the LA part ...

you could take the Vampire Racial Template +1 level
then 1 level of fighter (or equivalent) wiping out the LA.

Nears gestalting with Warrior npc class.  Not bad, not great.

[SorO_Lost]

Build: Human Martial Monk 7 / Feat Variant Uncanny Trickster 3 / Psychic Fighter 2 / Feat Rogue 2 / Fighter 2 / Legacy Champion 4
Details
Human: +1 Feat.
Custom [Greater] Bloodline: I'm only Human, Special 1~10 awards Bonus Feats = +10 Feats.
Monk/Pfgt/Frogue/fgt = +9 Fighter Feats.
Uncanny = +3 Feats.
Legacy = +3 Feats (via progressing uncanny trickster)
"Uncanny Trickster: Bonus Feat (Ex): At each level, you gain a bonus Feat for which you meet the prerequisite."
Total: 26 LA brought off using Bonus Feats alone (23 after bloodline).

Sell Point: At least I didn't use Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos.

Edit - Why Human? For the pun. Why Monk 7? Shadow Blend & Mantis Leap. Anything else? Yeah, the Phrenic (+2) & Paragon (+10) Templates are a must. With an ML of 35 and some limb abuse it deals a couple billion unarmed damage per round. And you still have 11 LA left to play with...

Edit 2 - Variants
Be a Phrenic Paragon Steel Dragon instead of a Human and use aging shenanigans to obtain 9th level Spells and you still have 8 LA to play with. Srsly, do you need more?

Edit 3 - Did I make Superman flinch?

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Doing this part for the hell of it: Quori Shard & Mantis Leap Details.

Unarmed doubles every two progressions or 65536d8 (25th) and double five times over for 35's value or 2,097,152d8 (9mil dmg punch).
Attacks: Steel has Cleric Spells (aka Divine Power) and assuming *only* +4 more (fob/gtwf/snap kick/planar touchstone/haste/etc).
Multiplier: x7 (valorous+battle_jump+tiger's_leap+morphing manyfanged dagger to ward cetus)
Speed: 1,920 (Land(60)*4(paragon+rapidwaith)=240)*2(wing graft)*4(paragon+rapidwaith applied to new fly speed)
Damage: 2,097,152 * 4.5 (avg) * 7 (multiplier) * 8 (attacks) * 192 (charges per round)

101,468,602,368 damage per round before mods and additional attacks. But really, just go back to that 26 free LA ok?

[PsyBomb]

Most effective single LA buy off would be Feral, gives NA, FH, and a version of Pounce. Add Pseudonatural to it for extra laughs.

[Gazzien]

SorO, I think the point was that it can /only/ be taken as a Fighter Bonus Feat (not the Bloodline Feats, Human feats, etc, it has to be a bonus feat specifically from the Fighter list).

[altpersona]

showing my ignorance

Uncanny = +3 Feats.

Legacy = +3 Feats (via progressing uncanny trickster)
"Uncanny Trickster: Bonus Feat (Ex): At each level, you gain a bonus Feat for which you meet the prerequisite."[/i]

looking at dndtools Uncanny Trickster dosnt show bonus feats, where am i missing it?

Gazzien,

Other classes that get bonus feats off of the fighter list, or 'as a fighter' can use this option as well. (feat rogue, etc...)

[Nytemare3701]

I assumed the restriction of it being with fighter feats was that it was the feats a fighter gets as bonus feats. Hence my "May only be taken as a fighter's bonus feat".

[Gazzien]

I assumed the restriction of it being with fighter feats was that it was the feats a fighter gets as bonus feats. Hence my "May only be taken as a fighter's bonus feat".

That's the point I meant to make, oops.

[TiaC]

So, Paragon Fighter 20 is a valid build?

[Keldar]

So, Paragon Fighter 20 is a valid build?

No, because Paragon Creature has no official LA.   And even its reverse engineered LA from Paragon Mind Flayer is 12, you'd be Fighter 18/LA2. 

Playing hypothetically...
You'd be really confused too, since you'd have to start at ECL13, but then would immediately buy off a level.  Which would get you a level to buy off another level.  Meaning you'd instantly go from Fighter 1/LA12 to Fighter 3/LA10 on Fighter graduation day. 
If you jumped classes, say Fighter 2/Feat Rogue 2/Psychic Warrior 2/Martial Monk2/ Martial Wizard 1, you'd shoot from first to 9th and LA3 with one level to choose that won't get you a feat from the Fighter list. If you keep taking fighter, every level you gain two Fighter levels and lose one more LA, paying it  off by ECL 16.  (Uncanny Trickster variant doesn't get Fighter feats, so you'd need to find other sources to speed the shenanigans along.)  Oh and since you instantly qualify for LA buyoff, you get a DMG to the head!

But yes, the benefits of Paragon are better than having 11 Fighter feats.  Enough to compete with most Tier 3 classes I'd expect.

[DavidWL]

Assuming a feat anyone could take:
1)  Sharn 4/Mystic Theurge 2:  CL + 9 (2 feats from flaws, 3 feats from levels) = no LA, CL 7, and your a Sharn

These are "fighter bonus feats":
2)  Dragonwrought Kobold: Sovereign Archetype: Wyrm of War (5 bonus fighter feats) - because Dragonwrought Kobold's aren't powerful enough

Sylph (CL = HD+4)
3a)  Sylph 3/fighter 8 -  a better gish with CL = HD+4 and no LA (If strict about it)
3b)  Sylph 3/feat rogue 2/fighter2/psychic warrior 1/

Phaerimm (CL = HD, + other overpowered stuff
4)  Phaerimm X/Fighter Y

Best,
David

[SorO_Lost]

SorO, I think the point was that it can /only/ be taken as a Fighter Bonus Feat (not the Bloodline Feats, Human feats, etc, it has to be a bonus feat specifically from the Fighter list).

You can revise the Bloodline to say Bonus Fighter Feat, hardly matters. And Battle Trickster stats Fighter Bonus (didn't use), Uncanny Trickster states Mobility/Defense only so it's Fighter in heart.

I also rarely give a crap on threads like this. Let's come up with a stupid houserule, how does it break the game! You can whine about Feat differences all you want, someone else will just find a better Feat combination, because it handedly matters. We know it's broken, topic was proved before it was submitted.

looking at dndtools Uncanny Trickster dosnt show bonus feats, where am i missing it?

It's in the book, Sin I think pointed it out, you can check the quotes here: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11474.msg203067#msg203067

But yes, the benefits of Paragon are better than having 11 Fighter feats.  Enough to compete with most Tier 3 classes I'd expect.

Phrenic gives you several Psi-likes and Evolved Undead gives a couple more SLAs. If nothing else, it can pretend to be a caster.

Or it could just be a caster. It doesn't really matter. Wyrmling Steel Dragon Sorcerer 13 / Uncanny Trickster 3 obtains 4 Bonus Feat Fights from Wyrm at War, 1 from Heroics, 3 from Trickster and you don't even need DL splat to obtain 9th level Spells. What could you do with five free LA on top of a full caster such as a Sorcerer? You know, Ordained Champion lets you give up Domain abilities for Fighter Feats too, because Clerics need free LA as well.