Author Topic: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5  (Read 4968 times)

Offline Another Monk

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Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« on: April 25, 2014, 07:02:50 AM »
Here i am, optimizing a suboptimal concept!

A few days ago, while looking around in the web for an image for an online character sheet, i stumbled upon this one
(click to show/hide)

As per the image and my estimation, stats would be (something like): Cha>Dex>Int>Con>Str>Wis
Or something like that anyway (also, since it's for optimisation, they are not locked in place).

Now the image screams Swashbuckler and Duelist, BUT
(click to show/hide)
this is not about making it happen, nor just making it work, but making it good, the people i play with, as well as me, are optimizers.

So i've found this little diamond: Arcane Duelist

(click to show/hide)

Finally to the important part!
Available resources are: Player handbooks, Dungeonmaster's guides, wotc site plus one wotc book of our choice. (I'm thinking of Complete Warrior)
I do not know yet the ability scores system we'll use and i'm building from lvl 1 to lvl 20 (as i always do no matter the campaign)

What i've come up with is this guy:
Human,
3 lvls in Swashbuckler (Finesse and Int to damage)
2 lvls in Hexblade (Cha to saves, could be paladin, but hexblade fits better)
1 lvl  in Duskblade (1st lvl arcane spells and full bab, YES PLEASE)
X lvls in Arcande Duelist (that's why we are here)
20-(6+X) lvls in Duelist ( i already got the prereqs, so it's not that bad a prc anymore)
Feats to be taken are: Dodge, Mobility (omg it actually HURTS to write this) Power Attack (if possible for the loophole) Ex.Wp.Prof.(Elven Thinblade) (again if allowed for it is from another book, but since it's equipment i might convince the gm)
If i can't work a thinblade, i'm also thinking for rapier+smth two-weapon-fighting.

I'm looking for, ideas, corrections or even a completely different build.

PS. I'd like to avoid going caster, although i've been thinking of Bard -> Swiftblade -> Arcane duelist, do you guys think it'll work better?

One more thing, i want the concept to be legit (no half-ogre half-succubus spiked-chain weilding monk with charmendine)

(click to show/hide)

Finally, since this exact same thread exists in another forum, i'll be posting ideas from both of them.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 08:36:06 PM by Another Monk »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 09:32:12 AM »
SorO's Enlightenment Series: Using the Omnislash
Hello and welcome to my little to no clue ramblings. Today's topic is the Arcane Duelist's Omnislash ability, or Flurry of Swords as it calls it's self. But before we go into that I'd like to run off on a tangent, off topic, out of focus, sidetracked, if you'll hear me out.
...
Poor BAB, d8 HD (better than some others), two good saves, 4 skill points per level.
Requires: BAB 6, Dodge & Mobility, Perform & Tumble 5, 1st level arcane spells. Screams Bard doesn't it?

Apparent Defense
Cha to AC. Not bad at all. Very useful.

Dexterous Attack
Reduce damage to increase hit. Seems lame, but srsly this is D&D. What optimizer worth his login can't bump damage into the overkill range? Give up some of that over kill for a better hit chance. There is no notation weather or not this applies before or after a critical hit's multiplier. Also since the class gives poor BAB you better get used to using this. The good news of course when it comes to THF Power Attack + Dexterous Attack = Win. Combine with simple charge boosters to remain an effective damage dealer as you level up. From here on out though the PrC's usefulness is kinda crap. Hold in there for the next six levels and remember; anything you use you have an almost guarantee to hit now.
...
1. Ability Damage/Drain: Wounding(core) and/or Weakening(some Faerun book)
And if you combine those mentioned additional attacks that 6x(1d4+3) points of Ability Damage, 30 Constitution loss means a 20HD target loses 300HP that cannot be prevented or healed by things like Fast Healing or Regeneration. -30 Str means a lot of creatures become unable to hit you or even rendered helpless.
...
Hexblade 4 / Paladin of Tranny 2 / Arcane Duelist 10 / Marshal 1 / Iajutsu Master 2
Cha to saves twice (sort of), Cha to AC, Cha to Initiative using marshal, and also +9d6 damage on every attack. Not the strongest option but I'm sure you grasp the concept of what it tries to do. the more you can stack Cha to stuff the more simple leveling becomes useful.
Check out the full entry in the link.

Offline Another Monk

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 09:58:42 AM »
Well ****, i've been searching for arcane duelist stuff 3 days now and didn't find this one.
Thanks :)

Offline nijineko

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 01:50:04 PM »
Well ****, i've been searching for arcane duelist stuff 3 days now and didn't find this one.
Thanks :)

he doesn't have 'lost' in his name for nothing...

Offline Another Monk

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 03:39:59 PM »
he doesn't have 'lost' in his name for nothing...
Epic comment is epic :P

Great thread oh lost one! (Never took wounding seriously) and quite nice build suggestions, although they don't cover what i'm looking for.
I want an extra ordinary front line combatant, that will be above average from level 1 till level X (where X might even get to epic).
Thus i'm still leaning towards S/b 3//PoF2/D/b1/ADX
(click to show/hide)
Paladin of Freedom (or any paladin) or hexblade help a lot with the saves, and swashbuckler fixes the subpar damage roll (plus free finesse)

Another Cool concpet is Stuff X/Arcane Duelist 4/Duelist 7, Fighting defensively and moving around taunting enemies (because what bad guy misses a chance to take down a thin guy that's running around in light armor?)

Edit: Bard 4/Swiftblade 3/Arcane Duelist X (paladin of freedom 2 mixed in perhaps?)
this one would be good if i had access to more books (but gm's rules are a bit tight)

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 04:04:41 PM »
Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike only works against stuff that's not immune to crits, so if you have any plans on going past level 12 or so then you're going to run into a lot of things where it won't be useful.  Its first level is better than fighter for more skills and free weapon finesse, but that's about all that's actually nice about the class.  The bonus to reflex saves is crappy and easily overwritten by buffs, the dodge bonus sucks since it's only against a single opponent and AC in higher level play doesn't tend to mean much anyway, and all the other class features after 5th level really suck for the level you get them at or aren't very useful in the first place.  Hell, its 19th level ability to deal 2 con damage on a crit is entirely obsolete thanks to the Wounding weapon ability doing 1 damage on every hit.

Offline Another Monk

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 04:38:32 PM »
Yeah, 20 s/b would be the last thing i'd do in d&d :P, i was only going for 3 levels for the extra damage, but you have a pretty good point about immunity to crits...

So it's either S/b 1/PoF2/Duskblade 1/Something 2/Arcane Duelist X or back to the drawing board.
We either need to find this something, or something quite different. i'd hate to lose full bab progression though(before level 6 that is)

Edit: After getting some encouragement, towards this:
I like Bard -> Swiftblade -> Arcane Duelist  but I've got a couble of bad feelings about it.
1. Saves, i mean, cha to saves is a big boost, i 've played enough monks (in pf, not one in 3.5) to know the value of 3 good saves (and i lost my cloak of resistance +5 once too *OUCH*)
2. Bab, not so much the attack rolls or the damage rolls (via PA-DA), but it will take longer (1 level is 1 level) to get to Arcane Duelist
3.Damage, not going Swashbuckler 3 means not taking int to damage (although he loses is against crit-imunes foes, so i'm open for ideas on this one) you also lose free finesse, but it'll be covered by othre stuff
4.Taking snowflake wardance, means i get to pick this one book (not necessarily bad)

On the plus side, it fits better fluffwise, we'll be random guys at the beggining, so i could get perform harmonica (lolz)

And i could forfeit snowflake wardance for Tome of Battle.

Any ideas about it?

would that go like Bard 4/Swiftblade3/Arcane Duelist X then PoF 2? (X propably beeing 10)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:20:15 PM by Another Monk »

Offline DaCraw

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 08:19:13 PM »
Yeah, 20 s/b would be the last thing i'd do in d&d :P, i was only going for 3 levels for the extra damage, but you have a pretty good point about immunity to crits...

So it's either S/b 1/PoF2/Duskblade 1/Something 2/Arcane Duelist X or back to the drawing board.
We either need to find this something, or something quite different. i'd hate to lose full bab progression though(before level 6 that is)

Edit: After getting some encouragement, towards this:
I like Bard -> Swiftblade -> Arcane Duelist  but I've got a couble of bad feelings about it.
1. Saves, i mean, cha to saves is a big boost, i 've played enough monks (in pf, not one in 3.5) to know the value of 3 good saves (and i lost my cloak of resistance +5 once too *OUCH*)
2. Bab, not so much the attack rolls or the damage rolls (via PA-DA), but it will take longer (1 level is 1 level) to get to Arcane Duelist
3.Damage, not going Swashbuckler 3 means not taking int to damage (although he loses is against crit-imunes foes, so i'm open for ideas on this one) you also lose free finesse, but it'll be covered by othre stuff
4.Taking snowflake wardance, means i get to pick this one book (not necessarily bad)

On the plus side, it fits better fluffwise, we'll be random guys at the beggining, so i could get perform harmonica (lolz)

And i could forfeit snowflake wardance for Tome of Battle.

Any ideas about it?

would that go like Bard 4/Swiftblade3/Arcane Duelist X then PoF 2? (X propably beeing 10)
How are you qualifying for Swiftblade? Bards don't get 3rd level spells (such as the required haste) until Bard 7.

Offline Another Monk

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Re: Charismatic Swordsman 3.5
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 08:35:03 PM »
How are you qualifying for Swiftblade? Bards don't get 3rd level spells (such as the required haste) until Bard 7.

Lol good point, the table i've been looking has the spell levels counting from 1 not 0  :banghead
(no idea where i found it)
editting everything :P