Help with roguelike arcane caster.

[Z_a_lot]

Im tasked with playing a skillfull arcane caster, a rogue wizzard of sorts.
So far i came up with  bard 1/beguiler 6/swordsage 1/ arcane trickester 1/sublime chord 2/ arane trickester 9 but i would like some other opinions, have any of you guys attempted somethign simialr before?

[faeryn]

I'm playing a Spellthief:2/Wizard:3/Archivist:3/Rogue:1/Mystic Theurge:6/Sacred Exorcist:1/Arcane Trickster:-- in an ongoing campaign. It's a very roguelike caster... of course in my case Archivist/Mystic Theurge became a necessity due to the party shrinking and our clerics leaving... The character was originally going to be Spellthief:2/Rogue:1/Wizard:5/Arcane Trickster:10/?:1

In my opinion, the Spellthief does a pretty good job at being a roguelike arcane spellcaster on it's own though... sure it's personal spell list is rather small and somewhat unappealing, but you can steal or "borrow" spells you don't know from others quite easily. This is a very useful ability if your facing a lot of enemy spell casters as well since you can prevent them from casting the spells you steal from them for some time. You can also shore up your spell shortage by carrying around a series of Wands and scrolls. Investing in a Wand Chamber on your weapon(s) and a Wand Bracer or Wand Bracelet would be a good idea for such a character.

[Maat Mons]

The able learner feat (Races of Destiny, p150) is good for such builds.  It makes cross-class skill ranks cost just one point each.  Throw one level into rogue or some-such to get your rank cap up, and you'll never have to worry about skill lists again. 

The Unseen seer prestige class (Complete Mage, p81) gets full casting progression and 6 + int skill points.  It also gets +4d6 sneak attack over its ten levels, if you're interested in that.  You've already seen arcane trickster, and it's a good option for after you finish off unseen seer. 

[Z_a_lot]

I liked the Unseen Seer, but the only way so far to hit those weird requisites and still get lv 9 spells is sublime chord or..... maho tsukai. im thinking on taking the unssen seer though. does anyone know any other way.

Also does assasin stance works for 2d6 sneack atack on trickester and progression on unseen seer?

[faeryn]

Also does assasin stance works for 2d6 sneack atack on trickester and progression on unseen seer?

I would have to say no... however Unseen Seer's Bonus Damage feature boosting SA dice should count for Arcane Trickster's 2d6 prerequisite. If your DM doesn't agree though you can always just take 1 level each of Rogue & Spellthief for 2d6 sneak attack.

[Maat Mons]

I liked the Unseen Seer, but the only way so far to hit those weird requisites and still get lv 9 spells is sublime chord or..... maho tsukai.

What in the world are you talking about?  A human rogue 1 / wizard 4 with the able learner feat can easily meet the skill requirements if he has an int score of at least 12.  There are 11 divination spells on the wizard spell list at levels 0 through 2 just in the Player's Handbook.  Wizards know lots of spells.  You've got the spellcasting requirement in the bag.  That's all the requirements there are. 

[Z_a_lot]

i mean the uncany trikester.

[Captnq]

bard 1/beguiler 6/swordsage 1/ arcane trickester 1/sublime chord 2/ arane trickester 9 but i would like some other opinions, have any of you guys attempted somethign simialr before?

Ummm... Similar to... what... exactly? I see a pile of numbers and classes that could be combined in a half dozen ways. What's the focus? You want to go stabbity-stabbity well? Want to self-buff well? Want strange combos? Wear armor? Zoom-Ka-Boom spells? Save-or-suck? How about this one...

Buy a Locking Garrote with aptitude, fleshgrinding, and Teleporting.
Get this feat.

(click to show/hide)

- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
You have learned the correct way to apply pressure to render an opponent unconscious.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist.
Benefit: If you pin your opponent while grappling and maintain the pin for 1 full round, at the end of the round your opponent must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Wisdom modifier). If the saving throw fails, your opponent falls unconscious for 1d3 rounds.

Then buy Death Blow and Harvester of souls feats.

Dump everything into move silently and hide.

Walk up behind someone with a Locking garrote, slip it around their neck, walk away. It tries to strangle them for up to 5 rounds, is locked around their neck so they can't get it off without cutting their own head off or passing a strength check, and when they pass out, it coup de grace's them and teleports back into your hand. Then they have a 50% chance of staying dead when someone tries to raise dead. Add ... err... something. Something else There was a WSA that also had a 50% chance of not coming back. Forget what it was.

I think there's some fine tuning involved, but that's the basic idea.

Note, other then a boat load of feats, none of this combo depends on any particular class (although a 1-2 level dip in monk sure makes things fall into place faster).

So, again, I need to know what you want to DO, before I can give any advice.

[Shadowhunter]

Entering Arcane Trickster is very simple if you use Unseen Seer.
Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 1 is all you need.
Caster level 5, enough for 3rd level spells. Character level 6, enough to have 9 ranks in skills.
2d6 sneak thanks to Damage Bonus adding 1d6 to the 1d6 you get from your rogue level.

My standard magical trickster looks something like this, it's a ranged attacker:

(click to show/hide)

Human Rogue 1/Focused Conjurer 5/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 4

Str:10
Dex:14
Con:12
Int:18
Wis:10
Cha:10

BAB: 12

Base saves: 5/10/15

Feats:
1: Able Learner, Darkstalker
3: Invisible Spell
6: Acidic Splatter, Extend Spell
8: Silent Spell
9: Practised Spellcaster
12: Metamagic School Focus [Conjuration]
15: Persistant Spell
18: Quicken Spell

Sneak Attack:
7 d6+8d6 for Persistant Hunter's Eye

CL:
21 Normal
22 for Acid Spells
24 for divinations
25 for divination acid spells (which there are none)

Schools Banned:
Evocation
Necromancy
Enchantment

Spells:
0:16
Resistance, Acid Splash, Caltrops, Detect Poison,Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound, Silent Portal, Launch Item, Stick, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation

1:9
Grease, Obscuring Mist,True Strike,Nerveskitter,Disguise Self,Silent Image, Color Spray, Feather Fall, Golem Strike

2:4
Glitterdust, Invisibility,Mirror Image,Cloud of Knives

3:4
Stinking Cloud,Fly,Displacement,Shrink Item

4:5
Greater Invisibility,Greater Mirror Image,Orb of Acid,Arcane Eye,Dimension Door

5:5
Wall of Stone,Teleport,Major Creation,Telekinesis,Prying Eyes

6:3
Acid Fog,Greater Dispel Magic,Mordenkainen's Lucubration

7:3
Greater Teleport,Limited Wish,Spell Turning

8:4
Mind Blank,Superior Invisibility,Discern Location,Moment of Prescience

9:6
Gate,Black Blade of Disaster,Foresight,Time Stop,Shapechange,Wish

Advaced Learning:
Hunter's Eye
Find the Gap
Gravestrike

It's pretty average, I'm sure it can be a lot better done by someone who's better at it than me, but the basic gist is there. Pick up Hunters Eye from the Ranger spell list through unseen seer, persist it. 15d6 sneak. Use a Persisted, Invisible Cloud of Daggers to get a free action attack each turn at 1d6+5 that gains sneak damage if you're invisible. Use Acidic Splatter to get a 30 feet orb of acid for 4d6 that also gets sneak attack when you're invisible, that's 19d6 acid damage as a ranged touch...
And these are your stand-by options when you're not committing spells for something important. If it's not enough trickery with Illusion spells, skipping being a focused conjurer and picking up Enchantment spells could be an option, if that's what you want. It has an easier time to get sneak attacks through than a regular rogue thanks to Gravestrike and Golem Strike (allowing to SA undead and constructs respectively), they happen to be Divination spells even.

[Z_a_lot]

Thanks Shadowhunter, that gave me a pretty good insight. Im going to add my own tweak but i hope you dont mind the steal.

[phaedrusxy]

Add 3 levels of Incantatrix to Persist all of your buffs for "free".

[Arz]

A nearly straight spellthief with Uncanny Trickster and Legendary Champion is doable.

[Maat Mons]

CL: … 25 for divination acid spells (which there are none)

Oddly enough, there is a divination spell with the cold descriptor.  It's detect fire (Frostburn, p92), which if anything should have the fire descriptor. 

[faeryn]

Add 3 levels of Incantatrix to Persist all of your buffs for "free".

Not quite "ALL" of them... just 3+Int Mod per day... but if you've got a high Int then it's certainly worth it... In fact I'm trying to figure out how to work in at least 3 levels of this PrC into my Spellthief now... Incatantrix + Sacred Exorcist w/Divine Metamagic guaranteed all my daily buffs to be persisted for free, with some left uses left over for those unexpected moments where you might have to persist something new... or worse reapply persisted buffs that were dispelled...

[Shadowhunter]

@Z_a_lot: You're welcome and of course I don't mid you stealing the chassis, that was kind of the point. 

@Matt Mons: Eeh. . . I did say divination acid spells, not cold spells. You know, courtesy of Acidic Splatter. Did I miss something?
If there are any, I don't know of them, nor does:
http://www.imarvintpa.com/DnDLive/FindSpell.php

Considering that there's not many spells you really want persisted, 3+int mod will probably be enough. It never occurred to me to use Incantatrix in this build, probably because I don't associate that PrC with the magical trickster theme. It's quite legit. One level of Wizard can be shaved, since we don't necessarily need the bonus feat from it, I just liked it more than I did the 5th level in Arcane Trickster.
For the other two, not sure what to cut. Honestly my gut feeling is to remove Arcane Trickster altogether, since all that grants is 2d6 sneak, 1 impromptu sneak attack and 1 ranged legerdemain. It's very suitable to the theme, but I never liked the "7 ranks in Decipher Script/7 Ranks in Escape Artist" requirement. Probably since I've never rolled either of the two. That would make it Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Incantatrix 5.

[Maat Mons]

Eeh. . .

I was just sharing an amusing anecdote of something I stumbled upon as a result of this thread.