Magic & Saves

[faeryn]

So after being turned into an ice statue... twice... I've decided I need to boost my low Fort & Reflex Saves... I've currently got the following helping to boost my saves:

Prayer +1 Luck
Heroism +2 Moral
Cloak of Resistance +5
Skin of the Hero +3 Luck
Pale Green Ioun Stone +1 Competence
Ruin Delver's Fortune +Charisma(8) Luck

I've already got a +6 Enhancement to all relevant stats as well so at this point... I'm looking for any other options that might be available to me... (Note: Ruin Delver's Fortune was added after the last encounter... so it might possibly be all I need but I would like to know what other options I have available still if needed)

The encounter involved multiple Fort save DC 45 or be turned to ice... I had a +25 Fort Save... so naturally I was going to fail the save every time I encountered it... boosting my save by 8 should help to survive further DC 45 Fort Saves... but since we're about to face off against an epic level wizard it can't hurt to be prepaired

[linklord231]

If you're specifically worried about being turned to ice, it might be cheaper to just get Freedom of Movement, or  immunity to polymorph effects.

[snakeman830]

Remember that bonuses of the same type don't stack.  Those Luck bonuses, for example.

[faeryn]

If you're specifically worried about being turned to ice, it might be cheaper to just get Freedom of Movement, or  immunity to polymorph effects.

we're entering Epic levels so i'm more worried about the ever growing Save DCs of enemies and since we're already encountering enemies at 20th with saves that I can't make outside of a nat 20... it's only going to get worse...

I already have immunity to most polymorph effects due to the shapeshifter subtype... and i do have freedom of movement... however, neither of those will save against Flesh to ___ polymorphs... a shapeshifter can't shapeshift when turned to stone, ice, glass, or the like. And Freedom of Movement doesn't work against these either...

also regarding costs... we've got stockpiles of unspent gold...

Remember that bonuses of the same type don't stack.  Those Luck bonuses, for example.

The DM for the game I'm in reverted the rule for stacking Luck bonuses back to 3.0, where they do specifically stack. Luck, Circumstance, & Dodge bonuses stack in our game, all others are non-stacking. However the bonuses must arise from separate sources still. So multiple party members casting Prayer won't provide any more than a single +1 Luck bonus to the party.

[linklord231]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10263.0

That being said, immunities are still king.  For instance, Flesh to X only works against things that have flesh, so be incorporeal. 

[faeryn]

I would honestly prefer to not go the incorporeal route... everyone is already immune to a giant list of things... and given that we picked up some Amulets of Inviolate Form to complete that last encounter (hence the reason I was only turned to Ice 2 times rather than a hundred), and  as I already stated, this is more fore preparation for other high saves we will undoubtedly encounter as we continue... I doubt that I'll have to save vrs becoming a statue again... my DM tends to expect us to take steps to prevent tricks from working more than once.

The fact though is now that we're starting the Epic portion of our campaign, the DM is going to be throwing high save abilities at us when he can, and those DC 45 Fort Saves were from a trash mob... if trash mobs require a nat 20 to succeed against a save, then I'm honestly afraid of what this wizard we are hunting down will throw at us should he use any spells with saves... and other encounters we will have following that... or along the way...

[faeryn]

Thankyou for the link to a good list though... after reading through it, it seems that my options for general saves is rather limited... but there's a myriad of options for specific saves (many of which I already have or offer a bonus type that I've already got affecting my saves)

From that it would seem that my best bet is to boost my saves through my stats at this point... or find a way to sub Fort/Reflex saves for Will saves...

So...knowing that... what would be some good options for a chaotic good changeling wizard/archivist to look into for furthar boosting Con, Dex, Wis, & Cha? or perhaps a method of adding Int to saves...

[Unbeliever]

Would the Diamond Mind save-replacing maneuvers help?  It's easier to boost your skill checks into the stratosphere than your saves.  On the other hand, it wouldn't help against abilities they can spam on you. 

Also, you've got access to Celerity and similar tricks.  So, you could use those to throw up walls, etc. to protect you from the worst abilities.  Or, even to cast a well-timed spell that grants you immunity, like turning yourself into an elemental. 

Given some of what you've said, I think getting into a numbers arms race with the DM may just not be that successful. 

[kitep]

The Insightful Reflexes feat (CAdv) lets you use your Int mod instead of Dex mod for reflex saves.  As a wizard, I'm assuming that's a plus 

I think there's a feat that lets you make Concentration checks in place of Fort saves, but I don't remember the name (Tried googling it, it seems that it's a maneuver from TOB, not a feat)

Is there a prestige class that will let you pick up Divine Grace (like Pal 2) but still advance caster levels?  CHA to saves would be nice.

[faeryn]

Diamond Mind is out of the question, the DM banned ToB.

If Insightful reflexes added Int to reflex saves rather than replace dex with int then it might be more useful... but in my case my Int and Dex are only 2 points apart.

The spell Ruin Delver's Fortune already grants Charisma to saves and my DM won't allow me to add the same stat to an ability more than once even if it is applied from a different source and regardless of bonus type...

[ketaro]

Make a list of bonus types you don't have boosting your saves.

Now check out the Creating Magic Items table in the SRD and realize that "Save Bonus (Other)[2]" is a thing that references to the bottom of the table where [2] is explained as "Such as luck, insight, sacred or profane bonus." and that "Such as" does not limit the list of alternate bonus types you can craft a Save boosting item with to just those 4 called out on the table.

The solution is spend more money.
If you run out, Untyped bonuses always stack~
You can totally add the alternate save bonuses into an item already taking up one of your body slots that is likely boosting your saves already and potentially slightly discount it per the "Adding multiple similar abilities" stuff for magic items with multiple effects.
I only say it specifically because you mentioned you're entering Epic levels soon and thus should be drowning in disposable income

Worst comes to worst, venture into the abomination that is creating your own Epic Spells to solve your Save problem

[nijineko]

there's always the option of spending a feat to get the replace all saves with one save. in the immortality handbook thread. you may have to using the training replacement rules from the 2nd phb or dmg, however if i recall the prereqs correctly.

[phaedrusxy]

There are some feats in Savage Species that add +6 to a save, but come with a drawback (which might be easily overcome in Epic, IIRC). The only one whose name I recall offhand is Cumberous Will, but I think there were also feats for Ref and Fort.

[Nunkuruji]

Mass Conviction can get you further on the morale bonus

[faeryn]

Mass Conviction can get you further on the morale bonus

Indeed...  and I've got a CL of 18 as an archivist so that will give me an extra +5 to my saves (+7 morale instead of +2)