Pathfinder Unchained

[zook1shoe]

Has anyone seen their copy of PF Unchained?

I'm curious what the changes to the monk are, I have a grapple monk that has the free changeover for PFS

[Nanshork]

Basic overview of changes:

Monk now has full BAB.

Will is a poor save.

Flurry of blows is simplified and no longer has a penalty.

A lot of the normal monk powers are now selectable ki powers for more customization (you get ki powers at 4th and every 2nd after that).  There's also "new" ki powers taken from archetypes folded into the selectable list.  Maybe some actual new ones, I'm not a monk expert.

Starting at 5th level one attack from flurry of blows can get a selectable bonus effect.


All in all I like it but there's nothing grapple specific in there.

[zook1shoe]

That full BAB is exactly what I needed... he can now get Final Embrace at 3rd level.

Thx for the rundown

[Nanshork]

Not a problem.  If you want a rundown of anything else in there, let me know.

[zook1shoe]

I'll get a copy eventually,  just not yet.

Thx again

[Unbeliever]

Sounds like they've put Monk more in line with their recent "pick from this menu" design philosophy.  Which is an improvement, though giving Monks low Will saves seems surprising and strips them of one of their subtly unique elements.  But, ultimately, it strikes me as rather underwhelming. 

Some of it is just the underlying CMB/CMD math:  giving me extra trips or whatever is less exciting when I'm very unlikely to succeed.

[Keldar]

Giving Monks one defensive weakness was a good move.   And honestly, with Wis as an all round useful stat for them, Will won't be that low a save.

[PsyBomb]

The change was a half-step in the right direction, though I do disagree with dropping the Will progression. Just didn't go far enough IMHO.

[linklord231]

I think that was to avoid people looking at it and saying "A class with d10 HD, full BAB, and all good saves!  Clearly OP!"

[deadkitten]

I think that was to avoid people looking at it and saying "A class with d10 HD, full BAB, and all good saves!  Clearly OP!"

Funny enough, on the Paizo forums a LOT of people got their panties all twisted up over the bad Will save.

There were a significant portion saying that the monk would not be able to make a Will save ever again....

[zook1shoe]

Damn... the unchained monk can't use archetypes :-(

[Keldar]

I think that was to avoid people looking at it and saying "A class with d10 HD, full BAB, and all good saves!  Clearly OP!"

You forgot a Touch AC that isn't autohit, like every other class.   

[Blightersbane]

d10 max BAB, access to qingong and other abilities, there is a lot to like. Question about FoB, is it at no minus, no penalties with max BAB?

[Nanshork]

d10 max BAB, access to qingong and other abilities, there is a lot to like. Question about FoB, is it at no minus, no penalties with max BAB?

Yes but they max out at two extra attacks at 11th level.

[Blightersbane]

d10 max BAB, access to qingong and other abilities, there is a lot to like. Question about FoB, is it at no minus, no penalties with max BAB?

Yes but they max out at two extra attacks at 11th level.

well hold on a second. One of the biggest grips against the Monk was encapsulated in the saying "flurry of misses". Now the monk has attacks = improved two wep fighting at no penalty and max BAB, no off hand penalty in str damage, perfect opportunity for power attack. What else would you have liked to see?

[Nanshork]

d10 max BAB, access to qingong and other abilities, there is a lot to like. Question about FoB, is it at no minus, no penalties with max BAB?

Yes but they max out at two extra attacks at 11th level.

well hold on a second. One of the biggest grips against the Monk was encapsulated in the saying "flurry of misses". Now the monk has attacks = improved two wep fighting at no penalty and max BAB, no off hand penalty in str damage, perfect opportunity for power attack. What else would you have liked to see?

You seem to be thinking I was saying something negative.  I have no opinion on the pathfinder unchained monk, I was just stating changes.

Also, all of the unchained classes are now on d20pfsrd.com

[zook1shoe]

What else do I want from an unchained monk? Not to be a monk period  :-p

I actually have a couple monk dip PFS builds, so it's not all bad