Let's play a game...

[Solo]

Here is an interesting thread by an interesting individual who suggests modifying caster level to fix 3.5e; instead of using the character level to determine the caster level, he thinks that people should use the minimum caster level needed to cast the spell.

Note the challenge I have issued to him; I have suggested that we try out his (somewhat absurd) houserules that are intended to balance the game.

Now, you know me - not only do I use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. What are some ways that this forum can think of that would make him cry?

[Seerow]

Well this definitely makes spells that allow SR MUCH weaker. They probably can't even hit most level appropriate monsters, but the big boon for weaker SR is that the SR armor properties which used to be useless are now incredibly useful. On the other hand, now Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon are forever stuck at +2, meaning that warriors need to actually pay to get their +5 enhancement bonuses, which is a nasty nerf.


Actually, I just looked at the thread, you don't get the spell level as your caster level, you get the minimum caster level to get that level of spell as your caster level. This means it makes almost no real difference, except to blasters, and maybe a few other spells like Holy Word/Blasphemy that get ridiculous with high caster levels (though the people who use these spells typically have ways to boost caster level... so even if they only have a 15 base caster level, they'll find a way to boost it to 40 or so)

[Solo]

I apologize sincerely for mistyping that. I'll correct it right away.

My main concern is with buff durations.

[LordBlades]

The only thing that's getting affected in a meaningful way are buff durations, making Persist via Incantatrix and DMM even more valuable.
As for the rest:

-spells with SR are getting even worse than they are now (still might not be meaningful with Assay SR on the table)
-damage spells  that scale with level are going to be completely useless (from almost useless).
-most others 'I win' buttons are largely unaffected

[SorO_Lost]

I apologize sincerely for mistyping that. I'll correct it right away.

My main concern is with buff durations.

Persist doesn't care.

Sure it's a nerf, just not the one you really want or need. God Style wizard's never cared about extra d6s to damage, Grease is a 1 round debuff to begin with (you trip and murder them or they move off), and if you can't kill a blinded person in three rounds (glitterdust) you're not trying and probably just distracting them.

I  think Summoners would have a problem though, the Reserve feat isn't based off your caster level so there is that. But Summoning isn't a big deal. Maybe Animate Dead would be, but nah you can just Heighten it if you want to be a necromancer. One feat is all this nerf is costing some Clerics and Wizards.

[caelic]

Yeah.  Major thing I see here is that it rewards all of the tactics that were ALREADY superior.

Lower CL means conjuration spells are even more dominant.  Lower CL means lower durations, which means Persistent is even more dominant.

Essentially, it rewards those who are already using the most broken/optimal tactics, and penalizes anyone who isn't.

[McBeardly]

Just like everyone before said all it does is widen the gap between bad spellcasting tactics and good spellcasting tactics.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Tons of great spells don't care about CL...

[Mixster]

Since he says heightened spells use the level they are heightened to:
Shadow Craft Mage.

With the requirement Earth Spell, and you off course taking the gnome illusionist substitution level, let's look at what this brings you, at level for example, level 9, you have 5 level slots here. So you heighten your Silent Image from 0 to 8th level spells (5 from basic levels, then add +1 from arcane thesis, +1 from earth spells and +1 from metamagic school focus).
With earth spell this alone adds +8 caster levels, to the caster level 15, you can now cast any conjuration or evocation spell of 7th level or lower with a caster level of 26 (23+1 for being a specialist illusionist +2 from arcane thesis).
This means that at this level you could just spam black tentacles with a +34 to grapple checks that would grapple almost anything that has a CR of 9 or less.

Even better go cleric intro into SCM, and get DMM Heighten + Earth Spell + Silent Image + Domain Spontanity. Your spells will easily hit a caster level insane enough to make

Or just screw it all and go DMM persist cleric with greater consumptive field.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, I just left my pure unsoftened thoughts (actually, that's a lie, I had to fight myself repeatedly to not swear more and call the OP a fucking moron outright) in that thread.  Probably should have done that here instead, ENWorld penalizes me for speaking the truth in a mostly civil way all the time while other people there have directly insulted me repeatedly and gotten away with it scot free...  ...Not gonna turn this into an ENWorld rant.  Ultimately, I wanted the OP to actually see what I thought about his goddamned stupid houserule.

[SolEiji]

Argh!

  Dangit, why didn't you warn me there was a Symbol of Stupidity there?  Great, I just took 1d4+5 Int damage, does anyone have a restoration handy?

Seriously though, I should have known something was wrong when I realized they hailed monk as the epitome of balance without any sarcasim.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Exactly!  I thought the OP was total snark and sarcasm.  I was wrong... 

[Mixster]

Seriously though, I should have known something was wrong when I realized they hailed monk as the epitome of balance without any sarcasim.

Well, the monk is certainly balanced so that against even CR opponents he will have a tough fight, but not an impossible one.

Since that's actually the balance D&D looks for, I guess you could say monk was the most balanced class.

I usually say that bard is, and that warblades, factotums, bards and specialized casters are what you should play when you play D&D.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

SotS tell us how you really feel. Lol

while other people there have directly insulted me repeatedly and gotten away with it scot free

aw your one of the MVPs over there. In fact there are so few I don't check that board regularly.

[bruceleeroy]

By the way, Solo: Wizard 5 / Red Wizard 7 with CL 40 from circle magic would bone the hell out of a Balor.

But, I'm sure you already knew that. I don't know why I bothered reading that thread, but I was a little bit disappointed by the ending.

[Solo]

That's what she said. (To you.)

[bruceleeroy]

Huh. And she said she was going to edit that part out before uploading it.

Well, I guess she got what she deserved.

[Empirate]

Come on, Stream, ENWorld isn't so bad. It's just two posters I can think of that are downright obnoxious. Unfortunately, they're also in the habit of attracting lots of attention, so the urge to hand out a little +5-mace-of-senseseeing bludgeoning can get overpowering. Also, unfortunately, the OP of the thread Solo linked to is ALMOST in the same category as those two...