Impact of CON-Based Massive Damage Threshold

[Necrosnoop110]

I was thinking about the Constitution-Based Threshold variant rule for massive damage in game-play instead of the normal 50 hitpoints.   

Constitution-Based Threshold
A character’s massive damage threshold is equal to his Constitution score. Whenever he takes damage from a single hit that equals or exceeds his current Constitution score, he must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or suffer the effects of massive damage.

Metagame: The Constitution-based threshold variant is deadiler than the standard massive damage system, since the threshold is so much lower. It’s best for low-level, low-power games, or campaigns bent on “gritty realism” in combat. You may want to allow characters the option of increasing their thresholds without improving their Constitution scores. For instance, a feat called Improved Damage Threshold that increased a character’s damage threshold by 3 would allow a low-Constitution character to increase his massive damage threshold quickly and easily.

Q: What are you thoughts on a 3.5 game that uses that rule? Has anyone ever tried this? I think it might give things a GURPS type level of lethality. And might up the level of seriousness when it comes to combat?   

[snakeman830]

I can see it being problematic, since your typical hit that you take at level 5+ will trigger the saving throw.

[kitep]

I agree.  Since 1 always fails on a save, you'll average 20 good blows/spells before dying.  Which means people will pick up an item/feat that allows them to reroll, usually once/day.  Which means it becomes a necessary item/feat that everyone needs to have.

Now if you change it so that failure means they take non-lethal damage equal to their max hit points, so they're simply knocked out and not killed, then it'd be playable.

[Keldar]

Do you like the lethality of 1st level games?  Because that rule is going to put you somewhere near that.

[Endarire]

I can't fairly state since I'm a fan of banning/ignoring Death by Massive Damage.  Considering WotC thought 50 damage in 1 hit to be 'massive,' and considering how much damage one can do when properly optimized (infinite or Hood-levels), I say do what you will do, considering my advice.

[Maelphaxerazz]

I do not recommend setting the Massive Damage threshold to the characters' Con scores.

Con already has a heavy weight on a character: it affects Fortitude saves and Hit Points. With the MD rule, everybody would max out Con, or else face Massive Damage rolls from mooks and small furry animals.

While it does increase "seriousness" in that people fear combat more, you can do that by simply lowering the Massive Damage threshold to any amount you wish, without tying it to an ability score. Sadly, there's another unfortunate side-effect for any low MD threshold: it disproportionately affects nonmagical melee combatants, who tend to take more hits.

[Nifft]

That sounds like a VERY lethal game at mid-levels.

I'd suggest something like:

Massive Damage is your Con score + a Size bonus (maybe +8 at Medium, +4 at Small) + twice your level.

Con + Size dominates at very low levels, Con + Level dominates mid levels, and Level dominates very high level play.

[Necrosnoop110]

What about

Massive Damage is your Con Score + Size Bonus + Twice BAB

[awaken_D_M_golem]

(x-posted, replying to o.p.)

Rather steep S-curve.  Won't impact early game much.
Then lets say mid levels, you get 1 of these per combat.
So you're gonna die no matter what, within 2 levels.
Later it'd happen every hit.  While monsters are "stupid"
they aren't so stupid they wouldn't try this at all.

However ... as far as balancing things with Full Casters
every attack is a SoD, while the casters gimp themselves
slightly  to compensate for their fragility.
idk might be worth a look.

I can't fairly state since I'm a fan of banning/ignoring Death by Massive Damage.  Considering WotC thought 50 damage in 1 hit to be 'massive,' and considering how much damage one can do when properly optimized (infinite or Hood-levels), I say do what you will do, considering my advice.

"Normal" massive damage goes :
1/10th Hood 
8/10ths the Million attacks t.o. thread
1/10th skewing the save.

[Nifft]

What about

Massive Damage is your Con Score + Size Bonus + Twice BAB

Hmm, thinking about this, I suspect that 2x Base Fort Save might be better. It's got a better start for the martial classes, and it climbs slower.

- - -

Now for another thought:

Massive Damage is either your Con score, or half your max HP (whichever is higher).

I mention this one because my group back-ported the 4e "Bloodied" mechanic for our 3.5e games, so half max HP is already on everyone's character sheet (and every monster stat block). That makes it a very convenient number, for my specific circumstances.

[Necrosnoop110]

Now for another thought:

Massive Damage is either your Con score, or half your max HP (whichever is higher).

I mention this one because my group back-ported the 4e "Bloodied" mechanic for our 3.5e games, so half max HP is already on everyone's character sheet (and every monster stat block). That makes it a very convenient number, for my specific circumstances.

Ha! My table also back-ports the "bloodied" concept. I think I like this.