Fun Find Followup Thread: Harpoon Shenanigans

[Nytemare3701]

The Kuo-Toan Harpoon, an exotic one-handed¹ throwing weapon that deals 1d10/x2 Piercing damage and has a range increment of 30ft. That's already pretty good - but it gets better.

A) Each time the harpoon damages a creature, they have to make a Reflex save vs. 10 + [Damage Dealt], or else they get harpooned.
B) Harpooned creatures halve their speed, can't charge or run, and has to make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast spells.
C) Pulling out the harpoon takes a full-round action and two free hands - it deals 1d10 damage unless you make a DC 15 Heal check.
D) The wielder can hold onto the attached chain, preventing a harpooned creature from moving more than 30ft away unless they win an opposed Strength check.
E) They can wrap it around a shield they've used the Adhesive ability on as a Swift action to gain a +5 bonus on all such Strength checks.
F) After wrapping it around a shield, they can slam it into the ground as a Standard action, which turns the opposed Strength check to move away into a DC 20 Strength check.

By RAW, D, E, and F can only be used by one monster (the Kuo-Toa Harpooner), but I think any reasonable DM would let you use D even if you weren't a Kuo-Toa (E and F do require a particular racial trait, so you're out of luck there.)

Yep, all of them are poorly written, but they're fun nonetheless.

No good way to make C harder other than to prevent them from even attempting it...If only we could negate that heal check and pump the damage.

In 3.0 it deal as much going out as in I think, but yeah they nerfed it to 1d10.

Since there is no Attack Roll precision damage doesn't apply and it doesn't note it "hits" again which cuts out virtually all WSAs. However, Quick Draw says throw multiple Harpoons into someone instead of a sticky shield just tie it to an Unmovable Rod using a heavy duty Adamantine chain so they can't really even Break/Sunder the line either.

So...How does one optimize this?

Pulling out the harpoon takes a full-round action...

So action denial would keep the harpoon in, but I'd prefer to have them waste actions trying and hurting themselves instead.

...and two free hands...

Making them disarm themselves for it is cool too, but again I'd prefer them denying themselves actions AND hurting themselves.

...deals 1d10 damage...

Thereby setting off the harpoon's embed effect

...unless you make a DC 15 Heal check...

Well crap. If this takes a full minute or something then it's fine, but we want to avoid giving them an out with a simple skill check.

[ketaro]

Well for starters, any and all creatures without opposable thumbs automatically cannot remove the harpoon, apparently 

So that maybe helps cover at least half the creatures you'd ever run into.

[SorO_Lost]

If you go with my idea I'd use Sudden Stunning on at least one of them. Throw a couple in as a Full-Round and Stun them, next fly up or otherwise position the unmovable rod in a limiting and very punishing way and activate them. Next round the creature has about one choice in mobility, move towards the rod and if it decides not to or can't then you've created you're own see through mundane version of solid fog since it'll take them multiple rounds to rip them all out: Best ranged attacks win.

[Amechra]

Get yourself a Fleshgrinding Harpoon. The two abilities interact... interestingly. Namely, Fleshgrinding gives you a 5-round nearly guaranteed harpooning. After that, the weapon automatically pops back into your hand, ready to annihilate more fools.

1d10 + bonuses damage a round for 5 rounds, which also prevents them from going more than 30ft away from you, halves their speed, and stops them from charging. And, you know, might prevent really weak spellcasters from concentrating on a spell - big whoop.

It sadly becomes easier to remove (you can remove a Fleshgrinding weapon as a Standard action if you make a DC 20 Strength check), but I think they'd still take the damage unless they made that Heal check.

=---=

A Bloodthirsting Fleshgrinding Harpoon would be even nastier:

1) You harpoon a guy, dealing X damage and giving the weapon a blood point.
2) You trigger Fleshgrinding, and let it do its thing. The weapon gets a blood point each turn.
3) The weapon reappears in your hand. You stab someone else, blowing 5 blood points to get a +10 to damage from Bloodthirsting, making it even more likely you'll harpoon them...

[Nytemare3701]

Get yourself a Fleshgrinding Harpoon. The two abilities interact... interestingly. Namely, Fleshgrinding gives you a 5-round nearly guaranteed harpooning. After that, the weapon automatically pops back into your hand, ready to annihilate more fools.

1d10 + bonuses damage a round for 5 rounds, which also prevents them from going more than 30ft away from you, halves their speed, and stops them from charging. And, you know, might prevent really weak spellcasters from concentrating on a spell - big whoop.

It sadly becomes easier to remove (you can remove a Fleshgrinding weapon as a Standard action if you make a DC 20 Strength check), but I think they'd still take the damage unless they made that Heal check.

=---=

A Bloodthirsting Fleshgrinding Harpoon would be even nastier:

1) You harpoon a guy, dealing X damage and giving the weapon a blood point.
2) You trigger Fleshgrinding, and let it do its thing. The weapon gets a blood point each turn.
3) The weapon reappears in your hand. You stab someone else, blowing 5 blood points to get a +10 to damage from Bloodthirsting, making it even more likely you'll harpoon them...

I'm pretty familiar with the fleshgrinding harpoon thing. It's definitely a way to make a harpoon a viable weapon, but doesn't fit the bill of "make removal practically impossible by virtue of constant reinsertion"

[ketaro]

Sudden Stunning from DMG2?

[Samwise]

Well for starters, any and all creatures without opposable thumbs automatically cannot remove the harpoon, apparently 

So that maybe helps cover at least half the creatures you'd ever run into.

Going from that, what if they CAN'T drop their weapon?

Viscid glob prevents all physical action until they make a Strength check, and resinous tar makes them spend a full round action to drop an item.

[Kethrian]

According to Stormwrack:

The harpooned creature can pull the harpoon from its wound if it has two free hands and takes a full-round action to do so, but it deals damage to itself equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt. A character who succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check can remove a harpoon without further damage.

The Stormwrack harpoon also has a rope, not a chain, and is listed as a ranged weapon, and therefore takes a -4 penalty to wield in melee, while the Kuo-toan harpoon is a melee weapon with a range increment.  All these differences indicate the standard harpoon is different from the Kuo-toan harpoon, so if you want to have greater damage when the harpoon is pulled free, use the Stormwrack one.

[Nytemare3701]

According to Stormwrack:

The harpooned creature can pull the harpoon from its wound if it has two free hands and takes a full-round action to do so, but it deals damage to itself equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt. A character who succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check can remove a harpoon without further damage.

The Stormwrack harpoon also has a rope, not a chain, and is listed as a ranged weapon, and therefore takes a -4 penalty to wield in melee, while the Kuo-toan harpoon is a melee weapon with a range increment.  All these differences indicate the standard harpoon is different from the Kuo-toan harpoon, so if you want to have greater damage when the harpoon is pulled free, use the Stormwrack one.

AWWWWWW YEAH.

/thread

[snakeman830]

Masterslaying from BoVD.  They pull it out, you command it to attack again.

[altpersona]

Aptitude?

[Endarire]

Dancing harpoon?

[Vizzerdrix]

Sizing?

[Fadier]

I have a build somewhere that uses Stygian Ice^{Frst 81} Harpoons. Stygian Ice deals 1d6 cold damage per round of contact and each time it deals damage it triggers a Will save (measly DC 12) for 2 Wisdom damage.

Tis min maxed to avert the drawbacks of the Stygian Ice material and trigger tons of saves to deal Wisdom damage.

[Nytemare3701]

I have a build somewhere that uses Stygian Ice^{Frst 81} Harpoons. Stygian Ice deals 1d6 cold damage per round of contact and each time it deals damage it triggers a Will save (measly DC 12) for 2 Wisdom damage.

Tis min maxed to avert the drawbacks of the Stygian Ice material and trigger tons of saves to deal Wisdom damage.

That's brutal. I love it.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Masterslaying from BoVD.  They pull it out, you command it to attack again.

lol. This is one of those beautiful MtG combos that makes you smile when you realize that no one ever thought the two abilities would be combined.

Also, you could use other "the weapons screws over the owner" by making unholy/holy/anarchic/axiomatic weapons (while being a shadow caster or other class to be immune to all negative levels rather than just energy drain) and making it an intelligent weapon with a crazy ego score. Now when they bring it out they lose a bunch of levels and have to win an ego score of the weapon can pull a "stop hurting yourself!" on the wielder.

[nijineko]

psionics to the rescue:

manifest molecular bonding on the harpoon and target.

as that power allows neither SR nor saving throw, they are now one object.

Not sure how the 'return to sender' effect will interact with this... if the magic is powerful enough, then it would pull the target along with the harpoon back to the wielder, i imagine. That or it will stay stuck in the target - but the target won't be pulling it out anytime soon, either.

[Fadier]

psionics to the rescue:

manifest molecular bonding on the harpoon and target.

as that power allows neither SR nor saving throw, they are now one object.

Not sure how the 'return to sender' effect will interact with this... if the magic is powerful enough, then it would pull the target along with the harpoon back to the wielder, i imagine. That or it will stay stuck in the target - but the target won't be pulling it out anytime soon, either.

Where is molecular bonding from? I cannot find it.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Its a 2e ability iirc. There's a reason WotC got rid of all that crap. AD&D was gross

[nijineko]

Its a 2e ability iirc. There's a reason WotC got rid of all that crap. AD&D was gross

No, it's an official 3.5 power. Over on Athas.