SlitherTransmutation
Level: Drd 0, Sor/Wiz 1, Wu Jen 0 [Water], Clerics with the Earth, Ooze, Sloth, or Scaleykin domains add it to their spell list as a 1st level spell.
Components: V, S, AF
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)
The entire front of the creature including their clothing and armor writhes subtly for about a second, then becomes still... for the moment.The subject becomes capable of
all four types of motion of a snake. They may move as per their land speed while prone including tumbling (fluffed as very deft serpentine motion), withdrawing, running, charging, counting as standing for purposes of provoking AoOs in general, etc... this may often give a bonus to hide/allow hiding in the first place in areas where sufficient cover is sparse or not present for a creature of their standing height, but is for a creature of their overall size. They are also not slowed in many situations where they need to Squeeze (other penalties for squeezing still apply), and may take 10 on escape artist checks to Squeeze.
Lastly, enemies do not get a melee to-hit bonus against you for you being prone. Penalties still apply.
Arcane Focus: A snake scale or live earthworm.
Slither, MassTransmutation
Level: Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 4, Wu Jen 3 [Water], Clerics with the Earth, Ooze, Sloth, or Scaleykin domains add it to their spell list as a 4th level spell.
Components: V, S, AF
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature/level
As per
Slither except as above.
The most interesting part of these may be how I handled Cleric access. What do people think about both the spell in general and that particular innovation? It gives a way to makes domains more impactful, without increasing the flexibility (and therefore delay when selecting spell prep) of the domain SLOTS.
Long duration is to make up for the niche nature, and the fact I had to give it to Druids a level earlier, even though it is Sor/Wiz who can really use it the most (and Wu jen, but that is a much rarer class).
I guess it might also be pretty useful to a Druid who dumpstated strength and/or dexterity because they are anticipating when they can stay Wildshape-d all day, but haven't quite gotten there yet, but ARE high enough level they can spare the 1st level slot...
Maybe put it at +1 level to everything (like it was originally) and add 5' Tremorsense while prone?
Nanshork
I just only review homebrew when requested, and I don't play 3.5 casters so that goes double for spells. If you want me to look at anything you have to ask, I assume that's why I was pinged.
DracoDei
Oh! glad I did so then!
So... maybe think it from the perspective of how much a rogue or scout would enjoy having that spell?
Nanshork
I don't see why it would be a different level spell for different casters (not that there's anything wrong with it). It seems fine, I can't help you finish them though because the whole I hate spells things.
I've never done any moving as prone ever so I don't know how useful it might be to people. 😆
Attacking while prone is terrible and sneaking while prone doesn't grant any advantages. I always see prone as a downside.
Skiprock
It is a very situational spell, probably best used as an afterthought against a tripper.
If you want to make it more meaningful, look at the Sloth Domain power for ideas which also negates some disadvantages of being prone ((Explanation by DracoDei: No AC penalty against melee attacks while prone.))
DracoDei
Yes, but...
GM: Your flanking attack leaves the dire wolf barely standing. (Rolls dice) It hits you for ## damage and (rolls dice) trips you.
Rogue: I take the withdraw action.
---------
Might be best obtained as a one use, swift action (1) magic item in the belt slot, much like the Safewing Emblem which is a 1 use Feather Fall (that might not even require the wearer to be conscious.)
(1) I don't think Swifts provoke, but even if they generally do, this shouldn't.
Nanshork
We use different tactics if you'd withdraw in that situation. 🤷♂️
The spell isn't a bad spell, it just doesn't fit situations I've been in.
Skiprock
Yes, I was thinking of the Withdraw action as the possible best use of the spell. Which is very situationally useful
I've seen Withdraw more often used than Total Defense (which still is not very often)
DracoDei
Sneaking while prone should totally give advantages if they GM is a good one. Some suggestions or even rules (that a good GM can then break if necessary) can might even be indicated. Such as +4 in tall, dense vegetation such as grass, or other circumstances where many small areas of cover too short to normally count exist (makes you count as 2 size categories smaller for determining if a given circumstance grants cover?).
Nanshork
We have different ideas of what makes a good GM. 😆
Skiprock
One of Oslecamos homebrew initiator classes uses Withdraw as trigger for maneuver refreshment, which I think is a clever idea to put an overlooked action to use
Nanshork
I already had the argument about GM specific stuff yesterday though.
DracoDei
That is VERY clever.
So, I'm going to drop everything a level, and HOPEFULLY make that item. "Niche" is, indeed, an understatement.
DracoDei
Fighter: This foe is invisible!
Druid: I cast a spell, flop to the ground, and move towards the fighter with serpentine motions while drawing my scimitar.
🤣
DracoDei
Maybe a Druid-only self-only spell, Aspects of the Slithering (Bite of the Were-Slitherer??) that gives a poisonous bite, +X Enhancement to Dexterity, +Y enhacnement bonus to Natural Armor, the effects of Slither, and the aforementioned short range Tremorsense (but this last only applies while prone)?
𝔓𝔞𝔯𝔪𝔩𝔬𝔱 the sassy
Oops i forgot to wildshape snake
DracoDei
Actually, probably just +1 spell level for Sor/Wiz, like the rest of the Bite of the Were-X series....
DracoDei
Are you of the opinion that few druids ever cast Bite of the Werebear because it is 6th level, and so, for most of the levels they can cast it, they can just turn into a strong creature with a trivial opportunity cost?
Because I wouldn't know either way myself...
Or were you just saying that without the existence of that spell, that would be the usual next thought/words of the druid in question?
DracoDei
Maybe no AC penalty for prone, and DEFINITELY don't count as prone even if you are for purposes of attack rolls or AoOs for attacking with bite.
Actually, your enemies not getting a bonus to melee attacks for you being prone should maybe be part of Slither (and thus Slither, Mass)?
Nanshork
I'm pretty sure Barmlot was just making a joke.
DracoDei
I assumed it was supposed to be humorous, as was the orginal scenario (something that could easily happen, given the spell, but humorous never-the-less).
𝔓𝔞𝔯𝔪𝔩𝔬𝔱 the sassy
yeah i don't have anything constructive to add
the_bluez
Hey the spell seems fine
DracoDei
Item added to same thread. belt slot, 250 gp, one use, lasts 1 minute. Swift Command-word activation, can only be used while prone.
the_bluez — Today at 4:52 PM
I like it
DracoDe
Any thoughts on what I did with cleric access?
What DO lower level rogues put in their belt slot a bit after they can afford Gloves of Dexterity +2?
Skiprock — Today at 4:56 PM
I think it is awkward to give access to extra spells outside of the existing domain spell mechanic.
However, I also think Slither is too situational to make it a worthwhile ACF to give the option to exchange Slither for the existing domain spell
DracoDei — Today at 4:58 PM
ACFs for individual domain spells? Regardless of if you came up with it, just hearing that idea makes my having put that rule in their a good thing!
...DID you (just now) come up with that?
Skiprock — Today at 5:00 PM
I did
the_bluez
I like that it is added just for having some domains without removing the domain spell of the same level
Yes it's situational but that's a good thing imo and also I despise that every cleric can do almost everything any cleric can, because it makes the origin of their magic less impactful
DracoDei
Interesting point!
I can certainly see some world-building value to increasing the mechanical impact of deity and/or domain selection...
250 gp (2nd)
Body Slot: Waist
Caster Level: 1st
Aura: Faint (DC 16) transmutation
Activation: Swift (command)
Weight: --
This cord looks like a extremely long earthworm with the faintest hint of snake scales.This item can only be activated while prone. You gain a
Slither effect for one minute. At the end of this time the belt becomes very brittle and weak, snapping in multiple places, its magic expended.
Prerequisites: Craft Wonderous Item,
SlitherCost to Create: 125 gp, 10 xp, 1 day.
((Would have explicitly given the effects rather than referring to
Slither but I might be making changes to that spell at some point, so I wanted to save time and/or avoiding having to remember (of course, I might not want it to inherit the tremorsense if I add that to
Slither.))
EDITED July 21st 2024: Officially added "not easier to hit while prone" bit.
