Monk Guide Confliction?

[LiL KiNG]

Hey all, so I was looking at the Monk Handbook from the old forum as I'm about to attempt to make my first Monk and under templates it has lolth-touched listed; as I was looking at trying to pull off the 'albino' half-drow bit anyway figured that may be a decent template to look at (and it is!) but it requires a non-lawful alignment, whereas Monk requires a lawful alignment. 

???

If there a way around the alignment restrictions of a Monk that I'm not seeing?  Kinda like how there are the Paladins of Freedom, Chaos and Tyranny (I think that's them anyway)?

Any input would be appreciated, thanks!

[Solo]

Hmm... Chaos Monk?

[LiL KiNG]

Hmm... Chaos Monk?

Any official (WotC book, errata, web enhancement, etc.) for this?

[Maat Mons]

Chaos monk is from Dragon 335, page 89. 

[LiL KiNG]

Chaos monk is from Dragon 335, page 89.

Awesome!  I don't know if Dragon magazine is allowed but at least I have a source!  Thanks!

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Alternatively the Ordered Chaos Feat from FCI would work.

[LiL KiNG]

Alternatively the Ordered Chaos Feat from FCI would work.

After looking at the Chaos Monk I'm not sure if I like their random number of strikes ability vs. normal flurry of blows - this Ordered Chaos Feat coming from a source book looks like a much better deal, not sure when reading the description if it'd work for class alignment restrictions but worth a shot to see how DM rules.  Thanks!

[SorO_Lost]

Just ditch Loth Touched.

What is it, Dragonborn Water Orc has +4 Str/Con & -2 Int/Wis/Cha?
It also gets flight; and double damage on a charge.
Or breath attacks; entangling/lingering breath abuse.
And is LA free; gets multiple attacks faster and hits 5% more often on top of HD/Skills/ClassFeatures.

Perhaps if you listed your character concept a better alternative would be suggested, perhaps giving the opportunity for further advice into tweaking what you have and rounding out it's edges.

[LiL KiNG]

Just ditch Loth Touched.

What is it, Dragonborn Water Orc has +4 Str/Con & -2 Int/Wis/Cha?
It also gets flight; and double damage on a charge.
Or breath attacks; entangling/lingering breath abuse.
And is LA free; gets multiple attacks faster and hits 5% more often on top of HD/Skills/ClassFeatures.

While the Dragonborn template is nice, and I looked hard at this, the roleplay behind acquiring it is a little weird and seems you should have to worship/follow Bahamut.  My DM would want a good storyline behind why I chose that template and would probably enforce my following Bahamut.  I also didn't realize Water Orcs were so good for no LA, even if ugly.

Lolth Touched nets +6 Str/Con, some skills and fear immunity for a +1LA (we allow buyoff) and I can tack this onto the Half-Drow with no negatives to any stat, looking at Monk I really don't want to hurt my my Wis if I can help it.  For a Barb or Fighter build though I'm going to have to remember that Dragonborn Water Orc...

Perhaps if you listed your character concept a better alternative would be suggested, perhaps giving the opportunity for further advice into tweaking what you have and rounding out it's edges.

I'm still working out the build/concept myself, the main point was trying to figure out how to meet the Chaotic requirement of Lolth Touched and still be allowed to take Monk levels which by the PHB require you to be Lawful.

[Mixster]

Go unarmed swordsage instead.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

I mean yeah ... if you start CO-ing "too" much, you ditch Monk.


I don't see why Monk has to be Lawful in a home game.
Lots of BBEGs in eastern fiction / fable / myth / TV (etc)
clearly qualify as a Monk-type, and yet are Not Lawful.
You bring Chaos to the empire, but you are not a Barbarian.
Warring States era. Any Dynasty collapse not involving Mongols.
Lesser Vehicle -types can be virulently anti-Deity.
  ... even half-Slaads do it.

[LiL KiNG]

For right now Classes from ToB are restricted, but some of the feats are allowed.

As for why Monks have to be Lawful... well lets just say some of us are all about adapting rules (especially PrC requirements as some are really hokey), and some members of the group are very strict, by-the-book types.

Personally, I figured if there are Chaotic Paladins, and even Evil ones, there shouldn't be any problem with a Monk being Chaotic - not sure how to work that in mechanically and wasn't a huge fan of the actual Chaos Monk variant mostly because of the change to Flurry of Blows.

[KicktheCAN]

Alternatively the Ordered Chaos Feat from FCI would work.

After looking at the Chaos Monk I'm not sure if I like their random number of strikes ability vs. normal flurry of blows - this Ordered Chaos Feat coming from a source book looks like a much better deal, not sure when reading the description if it'd work for class alignment restrictions but worth a shot to see how DM rules.  Thanks!

Chaos Monks actually get more attacks on average than a normal monk.

[X-Codes]

What level are you starting at?  If you're starting at, say, 4th level, you could be an Ex-Monk 2/Something Else 2 with Lolth-Touched already bought and paid off.  It's an acquired template, so you can claim to have simply acquired it at 3rd level.

[SorO_Lost]

It's an acquired template, so you can claim to have simply acquired it at 3rd level.

It is.

[SolEiji]

For right now Classes from ToB are restricted, but some of the feats are allowed.

As for why Monks have to be Lawful... well lets just say some of us are all about adapting rules (especially PrC requirements as some are really hokey), and some members of the group are very strict, by-the-book types.

Personally, I figured if there are Chaotic Paladins, and even Evil ones, there shouldn't be any problem with a Monk being Chaotic - not sure how to work that in mechanically and wasn't a huge fan of the actual Chaos Monk variant mostly because of the change to Flurry of Blows.

I once ran it where, assuming you don't ditch alignment altogether, you just had to stay lawful/neutral/chaotic on one of your axii.  That is, chaos monks were dedicated to whatever chaotic tenants and could be CG, CN, or CE, and neutrals were all about balance and were NG, TN, or NE.  It's pretty easy to make fluff that your shaolin school of fighting was all about balance, or freedom, or following your instinct, or whatever.

[muktidata]

Consider Feral if going into higher levels or Mineral Warrior for early game DR. I've never had a hard time passing Dragonborn past my consience. Bahamut is a giant dragon, worship him!