Author Topic: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...  (Read 8750 times)

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 06:34:21 PM »
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAvenger is the Druidic Avenger link.

The City Brawler ACF for a Barbarian is found in Dragon 349, page 92.

As for the 1HD thing, I suppose you're right.  They technically could have a level in humanoid.  You're thinking that if the character had a level in humanoid, and thus had the feats, that it could then replace the humanoid level with MOMF?  That screws with the order of ability gain enough that it might be possible, but it's a tough sell and probably goes into the theoretical optimization category.

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 07:28:17 PM »
I agree that it is a wonky method to do it. I will present all of the options to my DM and see what he is comfortable with.

Yeah, I don't know if I have access to that issue of Dragon, is there somewhere online with the pertinent information? I used to enjoy Crystalkeep, but they are no more as far as I know.

Offline widow

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 08:51:41 PM »
It has come up several times, but last I knew the Master of Many forms requirement for wild shape as a Class ability was not met by the special qualities of the template since it is was not actually granted by a class.  There maybe a ruling I missed, but it might be something to run (or not run by ;-)) your DM.  That being said, I never saw why it would not work since it functions as the class feature.

So lets go crazy.  Assuming you can stack all forms of wild-shape, why not go all out with bloodlines.  First in dragon 335, there is a druid varient that gets wild shape at level 1, but for only one animal form.  Pick a form that matches up with the Minion template for good flavor.  Then take your master of many forms.  Now bloodlines has two classes that grant wild shape.  Druid which has wild-shape, and master of many forms that adds its level into the total.  Both are level based things you should be able to advance with bloodlines.  Through in nature's warrior from complete warrior later for another source of wild-shape.  If you can get everything to stake, level 3 of bloodlines should add 9 wildshape levels, and the one level lost to the minion template will get made up with all those bonus levels.

Even going the ranger wildshape 5/ Master of many forms would still be decent if the minion did not work out.  You could always take the ranger varient that gets a bonus feat in place of spell casting.

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 09:29:04 PM »
The DM has decided that since it explicitly grants Wild Shape as a Druid of 11th level, that it in effect is granting the Class Feature.

As of right now I have talked to the DM, and he is cool with me starting out as an MoMF. So, now I need to figure out what to do with my 10 remaining points.

Here is what I am thinking:

Feat: Power Attack 2cp
Wealth (+3k gold) 3CP
Boost Strength to qualify for PA: 3CP
Feat: Imp Trip 2CP

That would give me a wealth of 22,000

So I need to figure out what items I need? I honestly have no idea where to start with this.

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2012, 10:41:38 PM »
The DM has decided that since it explicitly grants Wild Shape as a Druid of 11th level, that it in effect is granting the Class Feature.

As of right now I have talked to the DM, and he is cool with me starting out as an MoMF. So, now I need to figure out what to do with my 10 remaining points.

Here is what I am thinking:

Feat: Power Attack 2cp
Wealth (+3k gold) 3CP
Boost Strength to qualify for PA: 3CP
Feat: Imp Trip 2CP

That would give me a wealth of 22,000

So I need to figure out what items I need? I honestly have no idea where to start with this.

Wielding Clasps from MIC are a good start so your equipment works in wild shape.

Offline linklord231

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2012, 11:12:12 PM »
Improved Trip has a prereq of Combat Expertise. 
But it looks like several Bloodlines grant Power Attack for free as a bonus feat fairly early on, so you could save yourself a couple CP depending on how much a Major Bloodline costs. 
You COULD spend 5 CP on strength increases and a feat, or you could spend a few extra for a bunch of nifty abilities, INCLUDING the feat you wanted. 

Edit:  Also, I wouldn't spend 3 CP on  3k gold, but that's just me.  Unless you have some item in mind that you REALLY need.  Instead, dump them into Con or something.  It looks like a 1-point boost to an attribute costs 1 CP, so you could do something like:

8CP for a Major Bloodline (assuming the DM assigns a reasonable but not restrictive cost to a Bloodline)
2CP to buy Con up to 20
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 11:21:48 PM by linklord231 »
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 07:03:03 PM »
The issue with that is humans advance by character class.  By RAW, as a 0HD creature, they have to have a character class.  There's no such thing as a human with racial hit die, and even if there were it'd still count against ECL.  If the DM isn't counting RHD towards ECL, why are you using a human?

To give an example of a "monster," the listing for Dwarf has one with a level of Warrior.

that is technically incorrect. they do have racial hd. if you take a class level at first, it replaces some of the type features, such as hd, that is a characteristic of most, if not all, humanoids. if you want to advance a human by type without character levels, you simply advance them with humanoid hit dice.



The DM has decided that since it explicitly grants Wild Shape as a Druid of 11th level, that it in effect is granting the Class Feature.

As of right now I have talked to the DM, and he is cool with me starting out as an MoMF. So, now I need to figure out what to do with my 10 remaining points.

Here is what I am thinking:

Feat: Power Attack 2cp
Wealth (+3k gold) 3CP
Boost Strength to qualify for PA: 3CP
Feat: Imp Trip 2CP

That would give me a wealth of 22,000

So I need to figure out what items I need? I honestly have no idea where to start with this.


may i suggest that you pick up two magic items, or access to two specific spells?

from the spell compendium the bloodwind spell, and from races of the dragon the mighty wallop, preferably the greater one.

bloodwind allows you to use your natural or unarmed attacks as ranged weapons with an increment of 20', but still get to apply all of your melee feats to each attack. you must take a full attack action to use it. swift activation. as a first level spell, it is pretty cheap even as an always on item. i believe it is still a swift action to activate even as an item, but you might want to look that up.

mighty wallop allows your bludgeoning melee weapon to count as one size larger (greater allows for up to five size increases...), however, this is only useful with a shapechanger if you have at least one level of monk granting you the ability to count your unarmed strike as both a natural and a manufactured weapon.

picking a race with powerful build can be fun with this combo, as iirc they stack.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 07:11:30 PM by nijineko »

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: Yet another new DM... yeah we go through those pretty quick round here...
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 11:03:28 PM »
Oh. The Bloodwind thing should definitely be awesome. I suck at figuring out the math for item creation but I am going to need to look at that. Other than that I have no idea what to grab. Was considering a Monks Belt for AC. In the MoMF bible there is a suggestion for stacking a bunch of stuff onto a Vest, including the Monks belt itself. I think that I may be going with a Wyrmfang Amulet rather than a necklace of natural attacks, I am not really concerned about stacking abilities onto the attacks, and this is only 1350 to bypass DR/Magic. I was considering trying to collect the Fleet Warriors Array from the MIC.