Beguiler's Handbook Discussion Thread

[Hallack]

Beguiler's Handbook

This is a thread to discuss the Beguiler and it's Handbook.  This discussion thread should be used to discuss and compile information. 

Information here will be used to modify and update the Beguiler Handbook as appropriate.

[DavidWL]

I have a post about them:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1581.msg14973#msg14973

Level-by-level comparison to Scorers, asserting that a lower levels they are much more powerful.

Assertion that at 18th level (when they know all their 9th level list), they can give up CL with little consequence --> Wyrm Weaver (Miracle), Saint Template, etc.

Sample build.

The warmage guide at the old BG was awesome

It has a lot of discussion about expanding spell list that is excellent and completely applicable to beguiler.  I'd like to it, as well as include some high-level stuff.

Best,
David

[Hallack]

Thanks for the link. 

I pretty well agree with you on your assessment of Beguiler vs Sorcerer by level.  Heck, that is with just considering spells.  Throw in the skills goodies and Beguiler is even better.

[Hallack]

Have any of you come across any other good feats or options that should be added to the Beguiler Handbook?

I've already added a few like Versatile Spellcaster which I have always found great, especially in low to mid level games. 

[DavidWL]

I think Improved Familiar (Beguiler - from Shining South) is both good and flavorful  

Best,
David

[Hallack]

I think Improved Familiar (Beguiler - from Shining South) is both good and flavorful  

Best,
David

And helpful.  I've got a New Years game that I am making a Beguiler for right now.  Big group so I'm not looking to optimize too much (aside from being dragonwrought ) 

Going to be 7th level and I think I have settled on Versatile Spellcaster, Dragonwrought, Obtain Familiar, Enspell Familiar, and Celestial Familiar (Coure Eladrin) for the feats.  Beguiler as a familiar certainly crossed my mind

Now if only I get to play it.  It is one of 10 pregenerated characters we are going to have for the group.

[Maat Mons]

The bloodline feats (Dragon Compendium) give extra spells known.  They work for any spontaneous arcane caster. 

[Endarire]

A Sun Elf gets +2 INT/-2 CON, not -2 STR.

[Hallack]

Thanks, updated with the correction

[gorfnab]

Beguiler (Shinning South) make great Beguilers (PHBII).

[Bjornsides]

"Level 9: Swift Concentration* - concentration checks are a swift action, allowing you to maintain an illusion spell and cast another."

Just wanted to point out that you can't cast a spell while concentrating on another (from what I understand)

[Hallack]

"Level 9: Swift Concentration* - concentration checks are a swift action, allowing you to maintain an illusion spell and cast another."

Just wanted to point out that you can't cast a spell while concentrating on another (from what I understand)

The Swift Concentration feat explicitly allows you to cast another spell while maintaining concentration on another spell. 

It is an exception to the general rule you pointed out. 

[MirddinEmris]

Beguiler 8/Shadowcraft mage 5  build isn't valid - Shadowcraft mage has a prereq of having shadow spell of 4th or higher level and Beguiler list doesn't have one until 6th spell level. So either you should take PrC after 12 (11 if you use Advanced Learning for learning shadow spell) levels of Beguiler or use other PrCs to delay Advanced Learning on 7th class level.

[Hallack]

Beguiler8/SCM5 works fine.  Legion of Sentinels is a 3rd level Shadow spell on the Beguiler's list.  With the Heighten Metamagic feat you would be able to cast it as a 4th level Shadow spell thus qualifying. 

And of course as a Shadowcraft Mage you most likely WILL have Heighten Spell.

Hope this helps. 

[warrior1155]

First off I'd like to thank you, this guide is wonderful.
Secondly, wouldn't the rainbow servant prestige class be viable with the beguiler if you invest a bit into wisdom? The 10 levels are a pretty big dip but personally, I think it's worth it.

[Hallack]

Yes, the Rainbow Servant is very viable with a Beguiler base.  I've never played one myself but I recall discussions of them popping up from time to time.

Google would probably find some of those for you if you are interested.

Also, as I recall I don't think you would need to put points into Wisdom for this combo.

[eleazzaar]

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that Sand Shaper PRC work very nicely with the Beguiler.  You loose a level in your spell progression (or two if you take the whole thing), but you gain a significant number of spells known, along with some unusual abilities.

[Hallack]

You are right, it costs caster level but there is a very real boost in other areas to make up for it. 

[Endarire]

Assuming I get full casting, how'zbout this build?

TN Whisper Gnome Beguiler1/Rainbow Servant10/Shadowcraft Mage5/Mindbender1/Full Casting3

I use early entry tricks to reach Rainbow Servant @2.  I take all 10 levels due to needing an Illusion (Shadow) spell of level 4 or higher, which Clerics get.  (A Heightened dark way qualifies, as does a plain ol' skull of secrets spell.)  Shadowcraft Mage5 is just because, well, Shadowcraft Mage, and provides a thematic power boost.  I included Mindbender1 due to it just rocking.

I'm tempted to say "Include Archmage in this build!" because it sounds cool and it didn't originally seem possible, but its 2 additional feat prereq turns me off.  (Those feats could instead be used on Shadowcraft Mage goodiness!)

Rearranging things and going Mage of the Arcane Order doesn't seem worth it due to it costing 2 additional feats (Arcane Preparation and Cooperative Spell) OR one additional level 1-only feat, Magical Training.  (Magical Training also requires your GM being OK with using this feat for entry.)

Incantatrix is a very tempting inclusion for this build, for it is effectively the best general arcane casting PrC there is in 3.5.  Mystic Theurge is possible but cheesy due to Rainbow Servant10 granting access to the entire Cleric spell list... as Divine spells known... on the same class list (Beguiler) that also casts arcane spells.  What else do you suggest?

[Hallack]

I guess it depends on what you are wanting to accomplish.  What you have there pretty much does it all.