My cleric and I are back

[Agnostic Paladin]

So with some help from the boards here, I got my cloistered cleric built a few weeks back. He's played pretty well, except for one thing: my damage sucks.

Here's what I wound up with:

LN Dwarf Cloistered Cleric 10
HP: 66
Init: +10
Speed: 30 (Longstrider every morning)
AC: 24 (22 flat footed, 14 touch)
BAB: 10 (DMM Persist Divine Power every morning)
Attack: +1 Warning Morningstar (+16/+11 d8+7 20)
Abilities: Str 14 (20 Divine Power), Dex 16, Con 15, Int 11, Wis 20 (22 Periapt), Cha 16
Saves: Fort +11 Ref +7 Will +16
Skills: Concentration +16, Know: Arcana +7, Know: History +8, Know: Dungeon +8, Know: Local +7, Know: Nature +8, Know: Religion +4, Know: Planes +7, Spellcraft: +15
Languages: Common, Dwarf
Feats: Extend Spell, Persist Spell, DMM: Persist Spell, Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion (gave up domain), Protection Devotion (gave up domain)
Possessions: +1 Warning Morningstar, +2 Called Dwarfforged Mithral Breastplate, Helm of Glorious Recovery, Eyes of the Eagle, Cloak of Resistance +1, Reliquary Holy Symbol (not using ATM), Periapt of Wisdom +2, Hair Shirt of Suffering, Bracers of Blinding Strike, Gauntlets of Giantfelling, Healing Belt, Ring of Protection +1, Ring of Mystic Healing, Boots of Landing, Everlasting Rations, Nightstick, Lesser Extend Metamagic Rod, Magic Bedroll, 2xscroll of teleport, CLW wands w/ 40 charges
Features:
Darkvision 60'
Stonecunning
Stability
Lore +12
Healing Pool
Travel Domain


Currently, I'm finding that I'm not using my swift actions, and especially my helm and bracers as often as expected. When something hits me, I often don't get a chance to use the helm as I'm already down and I'm nearly always hasted before I can use the bracers.

I've got a fair amount of swift action spells as well. My biggest thing so far has been using Sacred Guardian / Greater Status to teleport the second half of the group (there's usually eight of us if everyone's there) to wherever the first half is when not everyone's been somewhere (fairly deadly game) and to try delivering touch spells at range. I'd actually love some advice on good touch spells to abuse this way as well as the general advice on how to get some better damage (and maybe survivability)

[muktidata]

You're missing Power Attack.

[Rebel7284]

So you can persist 2 spells a day, correct?

6 base turn attempts
2 Eagle's Splendor cast in the morning
4 Nightstick
2 Reliquary Holy Symbol

With extend this means you can have 4 spells going at the same time.
Longstrider is obviously less effective if you find yourself hasted a lot.

Here are the spells I would Persist+extend:
1. Divine Power
2. Vigor, Mass Lesser (SpC p229) - Fast Healing 1 to the party.
3. Channeled Divine Shield (PHB2 p106) - gain DR10/Evil
4. Darkfire (SpC p59) - 5d6 touch attack and 120ft. Ranged touch attack all day.  Change for Ice Axe (SpC p118) for 2D12+5 touch attack on days you are likely to fight things resistant to fire. Note, you can make iterative attacks with both spells I believe.

Edit: as for using your swift actions, Close Wounds (SpC 48)

[Vicerious]

I see you're persisting longstrider and divine power every morning.  Any other spells in your morning routine?  Greater magic weapon will improve your morning star to +2 for 10 hours, but you will get more mileage out of a persisted divine favor if you have the turn attempts to spare.  A better option than divine favor would be righteous might as long as the size increase doesn't cause any problems.

Also, what's your damage calculation for the morning star?  My math says that with divine power up, you should be doing 1d8+6 in one hand, or 1d8+8 in two hands.  Divine favor would improve both of those values by 3.  Righteous might instead would boost one-handed damage to 2d6+8, and two-handed to 2d6+11.

As mukti said above, though, grab Power Attack as soon as you can and grab that weapon with both hands.  Then you're be able to convert attack bonuses into damage at 2 to 1.  That would turn divine favor's +3 attack and damage into +9 damage, for example.

[Agnostic Paladin]

I stopped using the reliquary to wear the periapt when we found a couple of those, and haven't been doing Eagle's Splendor. (Does a short duration Cha buff actually supply extra turns to power an all-day spell?) So I'm running 10 turns / day. I've been keeping the extra handy to power a second use of a devotion power if need be.

Yeah, with the frequent hastes, longstrider has felt largely pointless (plus another party member loves some third party spell called Fleet Feet which boosts movement even higher) but I have only one domain and an extend rod that doesn't get much use, so what the hell.

Don't know what's coming up exactly (I think we're finished the fourth part of the Rise of the Runelords now) but I expect dungeons to continue to feature. Our enlarge happy wizard certainly ran into issues in the giant's lair the last few sessions, so I don't really want to go around being large sized all day. Divine Favour would certainly help.

Yeah, I'm two-handing the morningstar, so a d8+8. Felt like love taps against the giants we've been fighting; lots of rogues with ~150 hp and fighters with way over two or three hundred. I'm hoping to fight something a little more killable in the future (even though the +4 AC meant that they'd miss me once in a while; most of their to hit rolls were over 30 though, so that didn't happen much).

Power Attack would help, I can certainly hit things easily enough right now, but my next feat isn't until 12th and I'd already planned to take Ancestral Knowledge to power up my Knowledge Devotion.

[Janthkin]

I stopped using the reliquary to wear the periapt when we found a couple of those, and haven't been doing Eagle's Splendor. (Does a short duration Cha buff actually supply extra turns to power an all-day spell?)

It does.  You won't find a lot of love for the official FAQ around here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), but it can be useful for some DMs - see pg. 12, under "When a cleric has a temporary bonus to his Charisma score, does it affect his turning check or turning damage? Does it change the number of times he can turn or rebuke per day?"

[belowyn]

Hmm, not sure if its allowed, but take a look at some prestige classes for the next lvls. Ordained Champion can be worth it to read through, even tho the Smite requires use of turning attempts. A good way to use up the excess you cant spend on persists tho.

Also, your AC seemed kind of low (not that that was your question, but still). Are you stuffing yourself with Shield of Faith and Magic Vestment?

Divine Power is awsome, but you also have Righteous Might and Righteous Wrath(?). Stacking that would also help a lot And as others have mentioned, Power Attack! I would go for that over Ancestral Knowledge if you feel you need more damage. (Extended) Greater Magic Weapon would also give you a boost (at 10h you probably dont need to extend it), Also, if you can get a hold of Bead of Karma, you can get them cast as CL14. That would mean +3 from Greater Magic Weapon as well as better AC-buffs

If you need better AC/Buffs (as you said you needed to do in-combat healing), Paragnostic Apostle gives you the ability to add +2 AC to all AC-buffs. If you get the Beads, that means +6 Deflection AC, and +5 AC from Magic Vestment, at lvl 10. Yes, Close Wounds is awsome, as its quick, but it doesnt heal much, and if you can pre-buff your team with better AC to take less damage, you could all focus more on damage

A shame you couldnt have taken som PrC-lvls when you made the toon (just took a quick look at the earlier post. Didnt read it all through, so forgive me if Im mistaken about something). My opinion of Cleric is at least to go into PrC asap, as you get all the Cleric-stuff anyways (Cleric/Ordained Champion/Bone Knight/Paragnostic Apostle was awsome)

[Agnostic Paladin]

The paragnostic apostle mind over matter bonus would certainly make the various AC boost spells worthwhile; without it most of them would give me one or no points over what my gear already is.

I'm not using any AC buffs now, despite my low AC simply because it didn't seem worth the slots; I should probably at least be looking at shield of faith; that's a couple extra points of deflection.

I was originally going to make him a CC 5 / Runecaster 5 until I realized how many skill points I was giving up for some flavour that I almost certainly wouldn't have made much use of.

Now that I've got that faq link to point to if a second persist via eagle's splendor should be called into question, I think I'll be switching back to the reliquary. Just need to decide what I want to persist; the growth from Righteous Might is problematic at best, Righteous Wrath will almost certainly cause DM Wrath, Channeled Divine Shield is certainly an interesting idea. I'm almost tempted to persist fly just for the amusement value of it.

[Janthkin]

Now that I've got that faq link to point to if a second persist via eagle's splendor should be called into question, I think I'll be switching back to the reliquary. Just need to decide what I want to persist; the growth from Righteous Might is problematic at best, Righteous Wrath will almost certainly cause DM Wrath, Channeled Divine Shield is certainly an interesting idea. I'm almost tempted to persist fly just for the amusement value of it.

Seriously - Mass Lesser Vigor.  Essentially no chance for DM rage (as you're just speeding up the party's ability to continue adventuring), auto-stabilizes anyone who falls down, and frees up resources you'd otherwise consider using for out-of-combat HP recovery.

Alternatively, you could do something like Owl's Wisdom (for a +2 to your save DCs), or Divine Favor (for a constant +3/+3 Luck bonus).  And remember the advice from above - Extend and Persist STACK, so your 2/day should usually be 4 effects on you every day (either through Metamagic Rods or by using Extend Spell yourself).

[Agnostic Paladin]

It finally dawned on me yesterday what the implications of extended persisted spells is and since the DM was kind enough to let me trade off my less extend rod against the cost of a regular one tonight I'm now persisting four spells at a time instead of one. Still working out which four I'll be going with long term, but Mass Lesser Vigor is wonderful. Noticed tonight that Divine Wrath is melee-only so that might actually be something I'll wind up trying after all.

Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone. My cleric's certainly more effective now that he had been.

[Agnostic Paladin]

Me again.

I'm finally going to level next weekend; last Saturday's session left me 142 xp short of level 11. I plan to get Paragnostic Apostle, and take the mind over matter ability.

I've been looking for spells that give AC boosts, especially ones that boost the group and I've found surprisingly few. In fact, baring the ones that are Clr 7 or higher, I've only found five eight. I didn't think there'd be tons, but I was expecting more than that.

insignia of warding - races of destiny 166 Clr 3 - +3 Divine
recitation - SpC 170 Clr 4 - +4 luck
Shield of Warding - SpC 188 Clr 3 - +5 sacred, requires a shield
Protection from Evil - PH 266 Clr 1 - +4 deflection, against [evil] only
Shield of Faith - PH 278 Clr 1 - +5 deflection
Divine Protection - SpC 70 Clr 2 - +3 morale
Shield of Faith, Mass - SpC 188 Clr 4 - +5 deflection
Eyes of the Oracle - Dragon Magic Clr 6 - +4 insight

Still, eight spells giving six different types of bonuses isn't horrible by any means I suppose. I could give myself +19, the party +15 (one shield user +20), assuming I had all six spells going at once (protect vs. evil isn't really useful, and mass SoF precludes SoF) It'd be less than that effectively I suppose; most of the party will already have some deflection most likely, luck and morale might overlap for some people . And the protection devotion daily is a +4 sacred as well for the really tough fight of the day.

Anyone know of other direct AC boosting divine spells at Clr 6 or lower, especially ones that give other bonus types?

[Agnostic Paladin]

One other question; does anyone know of a handbook or other list that covers divine spells with a range of touch? It'd be nice to find more options to work with my greater status than just tossing the occasional low level cure from across the room.