Author Topic: Help with bard buffer!  (Read 5454 times)

Offline Bubbling Beebles

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Help with bard buffer!
« on: May 01, 2012, 12:12:50 AM »
Hi, I'm going to play a bard in one of my friend's upcoming games. I was wondering if you guys could help me make him a little better, especially with the spells portion since I usually don't play casters. I also have some undecided feats. I want this character to be a party buffer using inspire courage and spellcasting. This is what I have so far. Oh, and I can't use flaws.

Jazz Tempo the Silverbrow Human.

Bard 4/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Crusader 1/Sublime Chord 2/War Weaver 5/Spellguard of the Silvery Moon 4

STR 7
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 18

Feats
Human - Combat Casting
1 - Melodic Casting
3 - Song of the Heart
Fighter - Improved Initiative
6 - Dragonfire Inspiration
9 - Song of the White Raven
12 - Enlarge Song
15 - Words of Creation
Spellguard - Extend Spell
18 - ???
Spellguard - ???

Maneuvers and Stances: Bolstering Voice, White Raven Tactics, Revitalizing Strike, Lion's Roar, Leading the Attack, Stone Dragon's Fury

Magic Items: Harmonizing Crystal Echoblade, Slippers of Battledancing, Vest of Legends, Badge of Valor, Masterwork Horn
I kind of think I should just get a different weapon than the Echoblade and put Harmonizing onto it since I only have 4 bard levels.

Spells: No idea besides Inspiration Boost.

Offline linklord231

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 03:41:28 AM »
You need Enlarge Spell at or before level 9 in order to get in to War Weaver by level 12. 
Is the Fighter level only for Improved Initiative?  If so, I recommend dropping it for either another Crusader level or a Warblade level.  Right now you only have 7 effective Bard levels for determining Inspire Courage.  Another Crusader or Warblade level would bring that up to 8 (while in a White Raven stance), and get you your second Inspire Courage point. 
Since you mentioned this is for a real campaign, you might be hard pressed to actually be allowed to enter Spellguard of Silverymoon.  It has some pretty hefty RP requirements, and your DM might not like you having to spend "2 days out of every tenday" patrolling the area around Silverymoon.  Personally, I think it's geared more for NPCs than PCs, but that's just me.
Finally, a lot of the prestige classes you're taking have some high skill requirements, and for most of your career you're only getting 2+Int skills.  I haven't done the math, but are you sure you can swing the prereqs?  As a Bard, you probably didn't prioritize Int so I wouldn't count on getting more than 4 skill points per level for most of your life.
Actually, come to think of it, Sublime Chord has a prereq of Know(Arcana) 13 and Listen 13.  That means the soonest you could possibly enter it is Character Level 11, but you seem to be taking it at lvl 10.  So unfortunately it looks like you're going to have to shuffle some things around a bit. 
The Heartfire Fanner PrC from Dragon 314 might be worth looking into.  You could at least use it as filler for a couple levels.  Warrior Skald or Spellsinger from Races of Faerun might also be worth a look.  The former has Full BAB and uses an odd version of Bardic Music, which determines which songs you're allowed to use based on your ranks in Perform and nothing else.  It does not, however, progress spellcasting.  Spellsinger progresses both Bardic Music and Spellcasting, but only has medium BAB. 

For your empty feat slots, Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn gives Cha to damage (or attack, I forget which) which is kind of neat. 

If you can find a way to be immune to subdual damage, that would be handy.  Words of Creation is potent, but falling unconscious halfway through a fight is kind of a pain. 
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 04:09:05 AM »
Empyreal Ecstasy (6th): Prevents new Mind-Affecting effects from affecting allies (and yes you), which means you can Inspire and cast and they still benefit from all the great power of Mind Blank but get to keep your uber Inspire. Also halves melee damage dealt to allies and provides a +4 moral bonus to attack rolls as well as granting a limited immunity effect that ignores pain type stuff. Just make sure you have a +14 bonus to Concentration before using.

Nixie's Grace (6th): Gives a +8 Enhancement Bonus to Charisma, a normally epic-only bonus. Oh, and +6 Enhance to dex, +2 enhance to Wis, a Swim Speed (30ft.), underwater breathing, Low-Light Vision, and DR 5/Cold Iron because hell yeah, awesome comes bundled with more awesome for free.

Snowsong (6th, all the epicly-powered at 6th): All allies (yes you are included yet again) gain a +4 Moral bonus to Charisma, +4 Insight to AC, Fast Healing 1, Resistance to Cold 15, and all melee attacks deal an additional +1d6 Cold damage. Oh, and unless enemies make a Will Save they have a 20% fail chance with Verbal Spells.

Also, take the downtime or find an NPC to do it, use Arcane Disciple for the Diabolic, Mysticism, and Fey domains and craft a Runestaff.
Diabolic (FCII, 3rd): +4 Profane to Charisma.
Unearthly Beauty (BoED, 8th): free action, anyone looking at you must save or die.
Greater Visage of the Deity (SpC, 9th, UMD Good aligned): gives a bunch of effects including Fly Speed equal to double your land and SR 25. Best part is untyped ability bonuses; Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4.

Then just retrain out and UMD having access to them.

Feat wise, I'd pick up Metamagic Song to pay for Persisting Spells, and you can use Metamagic Storm to pick up Persist Spell it's self so if Spellguard can give you Extend Spell you're set.

And if you really want to get into Charisma.
A Eternal Wand of Righteous Aura for it's +4 Sacred bonus to Charisma.
Major Creation to produce an unlimited supply of Luhix & a Ring of Mind over Body (Bo9S&maneuver) for a +2 Alchemical bonus to all.
Horseshoes of Flame take up your Arms & Boot slot but give a nice +6 untyped bonus to Charisma.
All together, that's a +32 bonus to Charisma which is a +16 to save DCs. :)

If you need more info I actually have a thread asking for Spell help for a Sorcerer with Bard Spell access here. Go snag some spells.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 05:39:56 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 08:01:43 AM »
You seem like a bardic gish with all those bashy PrCs, so make sure you get Draconic Polymorph, and Metamagic Song as SorO said for Persisting it.  Giving yourself a high strength and a ton of natural attacks to go along with optimized DFI is quite nice.  If you do so, be sure to get a Necklace of Natural Attacks --> Harmonizing, in case whatever forms you take can't sing (that's actually hilarious if you imagine a NoNA: Harmonizing on a hydra's 12 bite attacks... they're all singing at the top of their lungs!).  You could also persist Lingering Chorus with DFI to just have it hang around all day.  Snowflake Wardance is only useable with a 1-h slashing weapon, so Draconic Polymorph is much superior.

I think Warblade is actually better than Crusader for you, especially for 2 levels (as link suggested).  Grab IHS and WRT and you're happy.
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Offline Tshern

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 10:19:51 AM »
Empyreal Ecstasy (6th): Prevents new Mind-Affecting effects from affecting allies (and yes you), which means you can Inspire and cast and they still benefit from all the great power of Mind Blank but get to keep your uber Inspire. Also halves melee damage dealt to allies and provides a +4 moral bonus to attack rolls as well as granting a limited immunity effect that ignores pain type stuff. Just make sure you have a +14 bonus to Concentration before using. a Sorcerer with Bard Spell access here. Go snag some spells.
I agree that this is an awesome spell, but all spells check for immunity when they are cast, it doesn't matter what happens afterwards, so that point is moot. In any case, this spell is definitely worth casting.

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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 02:30:38 PM »
I agree that this is an awesome spell, but all spells check for immunity when they are cast, it doesn't matter what happens afterwards, so that point is moot. In any case, this spell is definitely worth casting.
:D
Quote from: BoED, pg96
First, empyreal ecstasy renders its targets immune to mind-affecting spells and effects for the spell’s duration, but does not negate mind-influencing effects already in place.

Offline Bubbling Beebles

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 03:08:24 PM »
You need Enlarge Spell at or before level 9 in order to get in to War Weaver by level 12. 
Is the Fighter level only for Improved Initiative?  If so, I recommend dropping it for either another Crusader level or a Warblade level.  Right now you only have 7 effective Bard levels for determining Inspire Courage.  Another Crusader or Warblade level would bring that up to 8 (while in a White Raven stance), and get you your second Inspire Courage point. 
Since you mentioned this is for a real campaign, you might be hard pressed to actually be allowed to enter Spellguard of Silverymoon.  It has some pretty hefty RP requirements, and your DM might not like you having to spend "2 days out of every tenday" patrolling the area around Silverymoon.  Personally, I think it's geared more for NPCs than PCs, but that's just me.
Finally, a lot of the prestige classes you're taking have some high skill requirements, and for most of your career you're only getting 2+Int skills.  I haven't done the math, but are you sure you can swing the prereqs?  As a Bard, you probably didn't prioritize Int so I wouldn't count on getting more than 4 skill points per level for most of your life.
Actually, come to think of it, Sublime Chord has a prereq of Know(Arcana) 13 and Listen 13.  That means the soonest you could possibly enter it is Character Level 11, but you seem to be taking it at lvl 10.  So unfortunately it looks like you're going to have to shuffle some things around a bit. 
The Heartfire Fanner PrC from Dragon 314 might be worth looking into.  You could at least use it as filler for a couple levels.  Warrior Skald or Spellsinger from Races of Faerun might also be worth a look.  The former has Full BAB and uses an odd version of Bardic Music, which determines which songs you're allowed to use based on your ranks in Perform and nothing else.  It does not, however, progress spellcasting.  Spellsinger progresses both Bardic Music and Spellcasting, but only has medium BAB. 

For your empty feat slots, Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn gives Cha to damage (or attack, I forget which) which is kind of neat. 

If you can find a way to be immune to subdual damage, that would be handy.  Words of Creation is potent, but falling unconscious halfway through a fight is kind of a pain.

Fighter was because I needed something with full BAB to get into Abjurant Champion, Warblade works too. I messed up a lot when making this character going to move some stuff around and probably get rid of Spellguard.

Going to edit him and repost. Thanks for all the help everyone. Those spells are pretty sweet.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 03:21:12 PM »
If you're ditching Spellguard and looking over your Class selection there, look at a single level dip into Marshal before you start PrCing out. If you maximize your Charisma using the stuff I mentioned you should be around 58ish, Motive Dexterity will give you and everyone around you a +24 or so bonus to Initiative checks which is far far far better than dipping Fighter for Improved Initiative.

Offline Bubbling Beebles

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 07:02:22 PM »
Okay, so here is what I'm thinking about doing.

Bard 8/Warblade 1/Marshal 1/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 2/War Weaver 5/Mindbender 1

Human Dragonfire Inspiration
1 Melodic Casting
3 Extend Spell
Bard ACF Song of the Heart
6 Enlarge Spell
9 Song of the White Raven
12 Combat Casting
15 Words of Creation
18 Persistent Spell

I have 2 levels to play around with if I don't take the second level of Sublime Chord and Mindbender. I couldn't find anything worth taking though. Should I put points into Concentration and change Melodic Casting to Metamagic Song?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 07:07:25 PM »
Yes, change Melodic Casting to Metamagic Song, and also drop Enlarge Spell (cheap rod), move a couple things down, and take Mindsight (if you're keeping Mindbender).
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Offline Bubbling Beebles

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 07:21:45 PM »
Enlarge Spell is required for War Weaver.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Help with bard buffer!
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 07:22:12 PM »
Oh, right.  :banghead
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