Dragonwrought Kobold Bard optimization needed

[pelzak]

Hi,

I'm creating new main NPC for my campaign (depending on circumstances it may be opponent or ally).
I want to have Dragonwrought Kobold Bard with Sublime Chord prc.
However I have no idea how to level this up (up to 20 level).
So far I was able to think of something like:
1-10 Bard
11-20 Sublime Chord

Feats:
Flaw: Dragonfire Inspiration
Flaw: Lingering Song
1: Dragonwrought - Ametyst
3: Melodic Casting
6: Words of Creation
Eberron Bard: Song of the Heart
Otyugh Hole: Iron Will (simply because I can)
9: Leadership
12: ??
15: ??
18: ??

What you think? Are there any other more optimized builds for bard that will use Dragonfire Inspiration?
Any comments welcome.

Best regards,
Pelzak

[sirpercival]

Do you allow Dragon Magazine material?  If so, Heartfire Fanner would like to say hi.  It will allow you to play with Sorcerer as a DWK, which is just something you want to do.  It also opens up more PrC options in the middle... for example, Swiftblade is pretty nice, especially when you combine Slippers of Battledancing and Snowflake Wardance.  If you want to be a gish, that is.

Sublime Chord 3-10 are not worth it, generally.  Use PrCs instead.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

I assume it to be a Desert Kobold, yes?
Don't want it stumbling around blind in sunlight now, and I imagine CON to be more useful then WIS.

[imoenofcandlekeep]

There is no good reason to take 10 levels of sublime chord.  Ever.

At the very least, ask consider if you can adapt spellsinger so you have bard10/Sublime chord2/Spellsinger5/X3

That way you get Inspire Heroics and base +3 inspire at least.

Throw in a vest of Legends for base +4.  Also, masterwork mandolin is awesome for DFI.

Meldic Casting is a waste.  At high levels just have a continuous item of Undersong.  Practiced Spellcaster feat on Sublime Chord instead.

Edit:  Lingering Song is also a waste.  Armor/shield spike of +1 Harmonizing.  There, saved you another feat.

[Dawnmor]

A friend of mine has a Bard/Sublime Chord and despite the fact he looked like a idiot he was very good the +to hit and damage was great, just sat back and sang his song and game breaked with the Dragonfire inspiration thing.

But he did what you are doing.  Personally as a Bard, ESPECIALLY as a Kobold Bard, try to get your hands on Alter self, Then take ranks in singing that way you can fly around as a tiny/small dragon and sing to your hearts content.  Even doing a Sorcerer 1, Bard 9, Sublime Chord 10, will do great.

Gear wise, I suggest you try to get a hat of holding (Variant to the Bag of Holding), then raise your Pick pocket up and stash crap in your hat .  I contemplating doing this with a goblin, innocent looking but far from it.

I dont know what my buddy had besides the Bard stuff Feat wise but I do know that despite the fact he wasnt doing anything during the game, it was by far the most lethal.

[skydragonknight]

Bard 1-8/Sandshaper 1/War Weaver 1/Sublime Chord 1/War Weaver 2-5/Any full-casting PrC +5 (maybe 1 more SC level)

War Weaver provides additional buffing potential as a Move action while allowing a Standard to sing/perform. Sandshaper gives a ton of spells known including some buffing ones, some even at lower levels than normal. Won't achieve as much IC as a more bard-focused version, but we have the song of the heart feat, Inspirational Boost(Swift action spell) and a MW instrument, so reaching at least a +5 IC should be simple enough.

[pelzak]

Do you allow Dragon Magazine material?

Dragon Magazine is not allowed.

I assume it to be a Desert Kobold, yes?

Now it will be. Thank you!

Practiced Spellcaster feat on Sublime Chord instead.

What is the use of Practiced Spellcaster?

Sandshaper looks great!

I will update build later today.

Thanks,
Pelzak

[pelzak]

War Weaver is from Heroes of Battle so it's 3.0 not 3.5 and therefore not allowed.

Here is updated build:

Venerable Dragonwrought (Ametyst Dragon) Desert Kobold
Stats:
Str: 5 (9 base -4 race)
Dex: 10 (8 base +2 race)
Con: 16 (16 base)
Int: 16 (13 base +3 age)
Wis: 9 (8 base -2 race +3 age)
Cha: 26 (18 base +3 age +5 levels)

Levels:
1-5 Bard
6 Sandshaper
7-10 ???
11 Sublime Chord
12-20 ???

Feats:
Flaw: Dragonfire Inspiration
Flaw: Practiced Spellcaster
1: Dragonwrought - Ametyst
3: ???
6: Words of Creation
Eberron Bard: Song of the Heart
Otyugh Hole: Iron Will
9: Leadership
12: ???
15: ???
18: ???

I'm still not sure how should I use empty feat slots and what classes should fill the gap.

Any comments welcome.

Best regards,
Pelzak

[Shadeseraph]

Practiced Spellcaster? Increasing you caster level by 4 sounds pretty damn awesome to me, frankly. Pretty much a must for every sublime chord, who can gain even more from that feat than most other casters.

Song of the White Raven, to sing as a swift action? You would need some way to get at least a single white raven maneuver, such as a Warblade or Crusader level, but those give you a good amount of maneuvers to help and a bunch of extras. A single level dip of warblade at 9 would allow you to get the feat at that level, and some sweet maneuvers such as White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge, while keeping your caster level almost at full potential and your song bonuses at maximum values.

[ariasderros]

War Weaver is from Heroes of Battle so it's 3.0 not 3.5 and therefore not allowed.

 
 
 
 
HoB: First Printing: May 2005.
3.5 PHB: First Printing: July 2003.

HoB is 3.5
Look at the spells casting times, "1 standard action". 3.0 would be "1 action".
There are a lot of other things too, but point is HoB = 3.5.

[pelzak]

War Weaver is from Heroes of Battle so it's 3.0 not 3.5 and therefore not allowed.

 
 
 
 
HoB: First Printing: May 2005.
3.5 PHB: First Printing: July 2003.

HoB is 3.5
Look at the spells casting times, "1 standard action". 3.0 would be "1 action".
There are a lot of other things too, but point is HoB = 3.5.

Ow... I wasn't aware. Normally in 3.5 books at the beginning is something like "This product uses updated material from the v.3.5 revision." and in Heroes of Battle there is none of it.

So if Heroes of Battle is 3.5 the build can look like:
Venerable Dragonwrought (Ametyst Dragon) Desert Kobold
Stats:
Str: 5 (9 base -4 race)
Dex: 10 (8 base +2 race)
Con: 16 (16 base)
Int: 16 (13 base +3 age)
Wis: 9 (8 base -2 race +3 age)
Cha: 26 (18 base +3 age +5 levels)

Levels:
1-5 Bard
6 Sandshaper
7-8 Bard
9 Warblade
10 War Weaver
11 Sublime Chord
12-20 ???

Flaws:
-2 to melee
re-roll successful miss chance rolls

Feats:
Flaw: Dragonfire Inspiration
Flaw: Practiced Spellcaster
1: Dragonwrought - Ametyst
3: Enlarge Spell
6: Words of Creation
Eberron Bard: Song of the Heart
Otyugh Hole: Iron Will
9: Song of the White Raven
12: Leadership
15: Improved Kohort
18: ???

[Dawnmor]

I think that build is iffy, but each Op person is different, I suggest going with something more refined and yet simple.  While having an extra dimentional space Trousers .

[pelzak]

So what you are proposing for Bard build?

Best regards,
Pelzak

[ariasderros]

Well, what is it you actually want it to be able to do?
b/c for main NPC's, I like to make them memorable.

[pelzak]

I want him to be a Buffer.
He is buffing and some minor thugs are doing dirty work (hence Leadership).

Best regards,
Pelzak

[Dawnmor]

Well what I am suggesting is to go Simple.  But I suppose thats a suggestion thats in the eye of the beholder as everyone is different when it comes to simple.

Me, its Bard 10, Sublime Chord 10, that is simple, then sing anfd boost your part while you sing.

If you want a buffer, Wizard or Cleric or a Archavist/Wizard will suffice just as well.  But to me a Wizard or Cleric is a far superior buffer IMO.

[sirpercival]

At the very least put Lyric Thaumaturge in there...

[skydragonknight]

At the very least put Lyric Thaumaturge in there...

It does add some flexibility in casting, but doesn't advance Inspire Courage, so it's a matter of focus. If it could advance SC it would be great, but since you can only take at most 4 levels before Sublime Chord there's opportunity costs to consider. It's basically a decision of 4 levels of LT vs 1 level of Sandshaper (before SC since it loses a CL) and a level of War Weaver (same thing as SS) plus two other levels of his choice (in this case he went for the IC +2).

(yeah, the phrasing sucks, would reword but I'm out of time!)

[sirpercival]

At the very least put Lyric Thaumaturge in there...

It does add some flexibility in casting, but doesn't advance Inspire Courage, so it's a matter of focus. If it could advance SC it would be great, but since you can only take at most 4 levels before Sublime Chord there's opportunity costs to consider. It's basically a decision of 4 levels of LT vs 1 level of Sandshaper (before SC since it loses a CL) and a level of War Weaver (same thing as SS) plus two other levels of his choice (in this case he went for the IC +2).

(yeah, the phrasing sucks, would reword but I'm out of time!)

Mine was in response to the "Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10" build.  Bard 8/LT 2/SC 2/LT +8 is way superior.

[skydragonknight]

I wish you could advance SC casting with Lyric Thaumaturge, but RAW (and most RAI) it advances Bard casting only. So it doesn't combine so well with SC short of *maybe* Prestige Bard (which isn't kosher to combine with regular bard).