An Archivist casts Righteous Might - no DR/evil or DR/good?

[ksbsnowowl]

From Righteous Might:

You gain damage reduction 3/evil (if you normally channel positive energy) or damage reduction 3/good (if you normally channel negative energy).

Archivists don't channel positive or negative energy, so do they lose out on the DR aspect of Righteous Might?

[Yirrare]

RAW, I say this can go two ways, depending if you see the parenthesis as "guidelines" or clarification.

Either you see the parenthesis as inferior to the other text. So the bold text below is the rule for the spell, and the parenthesis is just a rule for which kind the cleric get, which doesn't apply here.
So the rule for the spell for a straight archivist would be "Either DR/Evil or DR/Good." How to decide the type of DR becomes harder here. I would argue to go with alignment, but I do realize this would cause problems with neutral archivists.

You gain damage reduction 3/evil (if you normally channel positive energy) or damage reduction 3/good (if you normally channel negative energy).

Or, you could argue that the parenthesis states the requirement. "If (and only if) you channel positive energy, then you get DR/evil." (And vice versa.)

If you want a definite answer of which of the two above is correct, I think we need a lawyer (or other professional used to study and interpret text). The problem would be that a D&D handbook (unlike a lawbook) probably have no written rules (or laws) on what is valid/takes effect in case of indiscrepancies in the text.

Personally, if I ran in to this kind of problem, I would place it in the hands of the DM with the arguments I made above. Though that wont really help you here. XD

I hope I contributed with something.
/Yirrare

[ksbsnowowl]

Oh certainly.  Any additional insight is helpful.  I'm the DM, and the archivist took Righteous Might... so now I need to decide what to do with this...

And of course, what is the Archivist's alignment? True Neutral.

Oi.

[betrayor]

I would say that it is the archivist's choice each time he casts the spell.....
Since he cast the spell himself without help from a deity  he should propably be able to choose as what alignment he counts for the purpose of this spell....
Anyways that's my opinion.....

[ksbsnowowl]

I would say that it is the archivist's choice each time he casts the spell.....
Since he cast the spell himself without help from a deity  he should propably be able to choose as what alignment he counts for the purpose of this spell....
Anyways that's my opinion.....

Hmm..... flavor-wise it makes sense.  It's not so much pleading for divine help, and here's what god gives you, but going through the motions of a ritual...

Perhaps what I'll do is allow the player to pick which "version" of the spell he got.  That copy of the spell will always give the same type of DR, but he could find a second copy that gave the opposite DR, if he wanted to.

[Halinn]

What happens with a cleric who channels positive energy but has a dread necromancer dip? DR 3/good and DR 3/evil?

[Yirrare]

I would say that it is the archivist's choice each time he casts the spell.....
Since he cast the spell himself without help from a deity  he should propably be able to choose as what alignment he counts for the purpose of this spell....
Anyways that's my opinion.....

Hmm..... flavor-wise it makes sense.  It's not so much pleading for divine help, and here's what god gives you, but going through the motions of a ritual...

Perhaps what I'll do is allow the player to pick which "version" of the spell he got.  That copy of the spell will always give the same type of DR, but he could find a second copy that gave the opposite DR, if he wanted to.

I second the "version" alternative. This since as betrayor said, he is not using a deity to cast it. But he must have gotten it from someone who did.

What happens with a cleric who channels positive energy but has a dread necromancer dip? DR 3/good and DR 3/evil?

It's tricky, but I would argue that since it is a cleric spell and he is using positive energy as a cleric, it would be DR/evil.

/Yirrare

[Kethrian]

An easier way to determine which he would get would be: if he worships a deity, does that deity let its clerics channel positive or negative energy?  If he doesn't worship one, then if he is evil, he would count as channeling negative energy, otherwise it's positive.

[betrayor]

An easier way to determine which he would get would be: if he worships a deity, does that deity let its clerics channel positive or negative energy?  If he doesn't worship one, then if he is evil, he would count as channeling negative energy, otherwise it's positive.

See,I don't agree with this.....
An archivist's power has nothing to do with his religion.....

It would be the same thing for a wizard casting the same spell(via Wyrm Wizard for example).....
I think that it would be his choice and irrelevant of his religion....

[Ithamar]

Can the archivist cast cure light wounds?

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Seems to have nothing to do with alignment or being able to turn undead.  If he can also cast inflict, then which spell does he cast more frequently?  Righteous Might indicates its DR is based off of what they "normally" channel.

[Tshern]

Can the archivist cast cure light wounds?

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Seems to have nothing to do with alignment or being able to turn undead.  If he can also cast inflict, then which spell does he cast more frequently?  Righteous Might indicates its DR is based off of what they "normally" channel.

But the reverse is true for Inflict Light Wounds, so you are at an impasse again. I suppose a Cleric would look at whether he has the ability to spontaneously cast Cure or Inflict spells (or Turn/Rebuke undead), but Archivists lack both of those abilities. I doubt the frequency at which the Archivist casts Cure or Inflict spells gives any rule-based legitimacy in this case, especially since it could be that he has never cast spells of either type.

[Ithamar]

Yet I was merely offering a suggestion, albeit one with at least shakey rules foundation.  Were the rules perfectly clear, I don't think KSB would need to be asking for advice.

[Tshern]

Yet I was merely offering a suggestion, albeit one with at least shakey rules foundation.  Were the rules perfectly clear, I don't think KSB would need to be asking for advice.

That is true. One more case pointing out the lack of comprehensive oversight on WotC's behalf.