improved familiar?

[darqueseid]

in the rules for the improved familiar feat it says "Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars" but the standard familars tend to give thier masters a particular bonus, +2 concentration, +2 spot, etc. etc. 

the improved familiars don't have entries for the "bonuses granted to wizard"  are they lost?  they are kindof like a feat in many ways, so are you giving up a feat by taking imp familiar?

It seems like that would make improved familiar a strictly terrible feat if thats the way it really works..

[wotmaniac]

well, you still get alertness ... so there's that.

Here's the deal, Imp. Familiars have stuff that is vastly superior than the stuff that normal familiars give you. 

[darqueseid]

like what? I mean there's nothing I've seen in any of the imp familiar entries that can justify that they are that great  other than the fact that a few of the imp familiars can use items. 

But compare the imp familiar feat to the leadership feat, you get either a cr 3 imp or such that doesn't give you any special benefit except alertness, whereas you can just get a cohort that has alertness and they're close to your level, and they can use items...

I could see the homonculous(dedicated wright) for item crafter/artificer specialized builds, but other than that, it seems like a really underpowered feat...

[StreamOfTheSky]

Anything is unerpowered compared to leadership.

And you shouldn't be taking the lower stuff, you should be getting the Imp and others that can use magic items and have SLAs and so forth.  Homunculus is an option.  But so is the Toughness feat.  Just cause it's an option doesn't mean you choose it.

[Karlton]

Consider this: Improved familiars can have hands with opposable thumbs (Imps, quasits, mephits) and can therefore use its masters skill ranks rather effectively when compared to a rat or a hawk. Also, an such 'imp-oid creatures' can talk, making it able to use UMD on the items that it holds in its hands, effectively giving you an extra spell per round. How is that compared to +3 on your spot check? Other improved familiars make vastly superior scouts when compared to the standard familiars, especially air elementals, that doubles as the best way of delivering touch spells, and earth elementals that can literally poke its head through a wall and tell you whats on the other side. Other familiars can serve as mounts (hippogriffs comes to mind), and others again are just plain cool (hellhound? YES!).

Standard familiars certainly have their merit, but don't write off improved familiars just because they cust a feat and cost you a minor skill/save bonus.

[phaedrusxy]

Consider this: Improved familiars can have hands with opposable thumbs (Imps, quasits, mephits) and can therefore use its masters skill ranks rather effectively when compared to a rat or a hawk.

Ravens can also speak, and so should be able to activate most items. No need to burn a feat on it... The imp's invisibility and pseudodragon's telepathy (if you exchange it's base feat for Mindsight) are probably the best two abilities you can get from familiars. The imp could stay invisible while using wands (via UMD) to heal or buff partymembers, etc.

[zook1shoe]

Imps and quasits can turn into just about any creature in the game with their alternate form (choose 2 medium). That's better than any of the bonuses that the standard familiars give.

Similarly, getting Dragon Familiar gets you a familiar that has an at will breath weapon vs a bird that can talk or a frog? Umm yes!

[Kremti]

Yeah, pick *any* feat and compare it to Leadership...am sure you'll have tough time coming up with something better!

-K

[Halinn]

Yeah, pick *any* feat and compare it to Leadership...am sure you'll have tough time coming up with something better!

-K

Undead Leadership is on par, Dragon Cohort can do infinite leadership loops, which probably makes it better