Epic implications for Dragons with more than 20 HD?

[ksbsnowowl]

I'm in the process of stating up a dragon or two, and I vaguely recall there being some rule about monsters with racial HD above 20 being able to take Epic feats (or not?) and also, what are the implications for their BAB?

IIRC, humans with more than 20 HD gain a +1 bonus to attack and saves for every 2 HD beyond 20, but their actual BAB doesn't rise, so no gaining additional iterative attacks.  How does that work for Dragons and the like?  I understand most dragons use their natural attacks, but a dragon with 26 HD could wield a colossal sword.  Would he get 6 attacks at BAB's +26/+21/+16/+11/+6/+1?

[betrayor]

No,you  never get more than 4 attacks from base attack bonus,
while that is true it is possible not  only for a dragon but for any creature with only racial hit dice to get base attack bonus above 20 it won't give them over 4 attacks.......

Also while it is true that a creature can take epic feats if their hit dice is over 20 ,there are special
stipulations for True Dragons,they can take epic feats as long as they are old age or older.......

Hope I helped......

[snakeman830]

This is correct.  Racial HD ignore the BAB/saves cap, but you can never gain more than 4 attacks from BAB.

[ksbsnowowl]

Thanks for the replies.

If I could trouble you once more, I was looking at the Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike feats.  The creature I'm currently looking at is the Brown Dragon from Monsters of Faerun, which does not get wing attacks, and thus only has two claws as his only paired natural weapons.

An adult Brown Dragon has BAB +21, Multiattack, and a full attack of:
Bite +28 (2d8+9) and 2 Claws +26 (2d6+4) and Tail Slap +26 (2d6+4)

With Rapid Strike that would become:
Bite +28 (2d8+9) and 2 Claws +26 (2d6+4), Claw +21 (2d6+4) and Tail Slap +26 (2d6+4)
Correct?

With Improved Rapid Strike would that become:
Bite +28 (2d8+9) and 2 Claws +26 (2d6+4), Claw +21/+16/+11/+6 (2d6+4) and Tail Slap +26 (2d6+4)
or
Bite +28 (2d8+9) and 2 Claws +26 (2d6+4), Claw +21/+16/+16/+16 (2d6+4) and Tail Slap +26 (2d6+4) ?

If you have a pair of natural weapons, such as two claws, two wings, or two slams, you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a –5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional –5, but never more than four extra attacks. Creatures with multiple limbs qualify for this feat as well, so a creature with three arms and three claw attacks qualifies for this feat.

It doesn't say "second and subsequent attacks at an additional -5 per attack," but I suspect that is what they meant.
Is there a consensus of which it is meant to provide?

[ksbsnowowl]

No one? 

Hope you all are enjoying your holiday. 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

I've always read it as being an additional -5 per attack. I've never personally seen it argued otherwise.

[ksbsnowowl]

I've always read it as being an additional -5 per attack. I've never personally seen it argued otherwise.

I'm not really arguing for it to be otherwise, I'm just saying it isn't clear, and asking how everyone else plays it.

[betrayor]

That's how I play it too...
-5 to all attacks not just the second....