Character Ideas for upcoming 3.5 campaign

[Shadowhunter]

And then you enter Master of Many Forms from Complete Adventurer once you're taking your 6th level.
You even get Endurance as a bonus feat from Ranger and thus you only need to spend 1 feat to go into MoMF.
Sure, it's Alertness, a not particularly good feat. But still, just 1 feat for 10 new kinds of wild shapes?
(Humanoids, Giants, Monstrous Humanoids, Fey, Vermin, Aberrations, Plants, Oozes, Elementals and Dragons).
With (Ex) qualities gained at PrC level 7 (so ECL 12)?

It's awesome.
Here's the old MoMF Bible. Give it a good read.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_shape_rules

[Triskavanski]

Here is another question..
Fleshwarper, needs graft flesh feat which costs 10 ranks in heal. He also needs a familiar..
Is there any way to get that graft flesh feat earlier? And how could something like a wizard get it?


For my Poltregiest Mage this is kinda what I'm looking at right now..

Race: ??
Battle Sorc 3, Duskblade 1
Feats: precocious apprentice (Tune of the Dancing Weapon)

Tune of the dancing weapon basically gives a weapon 4 rounds of the dancing property. (Dragon 335, page 77)


EDIT:

Actually, I think I found it.
Wizard/Archivist - Mystic Theurage.

Using Precocious Apprentice I can skip to levels of wizard (as I can cast 2nd level spells by level 1.) Thus being able to progress into the PrC by level 5, after I've gotten the ability to cast second level divine. I just need to figure out if there is any other PrCs that would assist to this fusion.. or how to balance my levels properly to gain access to many things..

[weenog]

Precocious Apprentice doesn't work for dual advancement like that.  As soon as you gain the ability to cast 2nd-level spells (not 2nd-level spells of your class only, any 2nd-level spells) you lose the early casting benefit and wind up with a 2nd-level slot that either migrates to the class that got the 2nd-level spells, or stays with the original class and doesn't matter (except for metamagic) because it isn't able to cast 2nd-level spells, it's somewhat ambiguous.

[Triskavanski]

mostly depends if I can sweet talk my DM into letting it or not. As he does seem to have a certain little happy place for the Mystic, I might be able to since it does have that ambiguous aspect to it.

I dunno though. As cool as it would be, I'd still end up a 15/15 caster and barely have 8th level spells and not have any 9th.

Bah! I've also been looking for a spell I've seen a couple of times that was basically the force choke. So far Grasp of Orcus seems to be the closest, but that's for cleric. There is also stolen breath for sorcerers..

EDIT:

Anyone know how to make True Necormancer work? I find it a very odd class considering its a 14 level class.

Does Precocious Apprentice work for something like ELDRITCH THEURGE, since warlocks don't cast spells?

[Dreamweaver]

Weenog, not too sure about your RAW view of Precocious Apprentice since the RAI of it seems to be indicating that it is meant for only arcane casting (Int or Cha based plus being able to cast 1st level arcane spells).  The remainder of the description given for the feat seems to be implying the effects occur when you are able to cast 2nd level spells of the type that the feat applies to, not just any.

However, I guess you could interpret that as such, strictly by RAW, since it doesn't specifically specify that it applies to the arcane casting that you got the feat with.  Still, I think most DM's would agree that this typically gives its ability (and loses its ability when 2nd level casting becomes normally available) for the arcane casting class that you succeed at getting it with.  This would be why it is so often used to enter dual caster type classes in most handbooks.

[weenog]

Strictly by RAW, gaining the ability to cast any kind of 2nd-level spells shuts down the primary benefit of the feat.  Going by RAI, the writer of that feat was actually asked about it back when everyone lived at 339 (I wish I had the link, anyone who remembers that time and does have it please help me out), and said no, this is not meant to work the way you want it to and does not enable early entry to dual-casting classes.

The only ambiguous bit is what the heck happens to the 2nd-level slot you used to be able to cast 2nd-level spells out of early, when you lose the feat's first benefit by gaining 2nd-level spells in a different casting progression.

You can misread the feat on purpose and recommend others do likewise, but RAW that trick doesn't work and RAI it's not supposed to.

[Triskavanski]

what about earlier access to things like arcane trickster or Eldritch Theurge?

[weenog]

It's becoming able to cast 2nd-level spells that interferes with the feat.  Using Precocious Apprentice for early entry to a hybrid class with something else that does not cast spells, while probably also against RAI, doesn't cut its own balls off RAW.

Arcane Trickster is pretty awful, btw.  Suggest you forget all about that class and think of Unseen Seer whenever you would normally consider AT.

[Dreamweaver]

Well, that makes sense then as to why I can still use the feat for entry into Cerebremancer with Psion 1/Beholder Mage 1.

Of course, I'm using Overchannel, an item that reduces power point costs by 1 to get 2nd level power manifesting, and psychic churgry(sp?) to gain knowledge of a 2nd level power, but still, as you say, by RAW, I can enter Cerebremancer.  The first level gives me the ability to cast 2nd level spells (via B.M. advancement) and 2nd level powers (via simply Overchannel so I no longer "need" the item for power point cost reduction) so I can still qualify for the Cerebremancer class and continue to advance it.

I see now why so many people use the Cerebremancer for the initial early jump on PrC with Precocious Apprentice.  Thank you for the update about the RAI talk with the original creator.

[weenog]

I really do hope someone from those days when everyone was at 339 can provide the link to the quote and source.  If so I'm saving it.  I remember it, but I can't source it, and without that all I have to offer is my word.

[Dreamweaver]

Note, however:  the feat Southern Magician will allow you to cast, at least once per day, an Arcane spell as a Divine Spell and vice versa.

I believe by using this, along with Precocious Apprentice, you could, in theory, enter Mystic Theurge with: Cleric 1/Wiz or Sorc 1.

After 2 levels of the PrC, you'd gain the ability to cast 2nd level Arcane and Divine, which would negate the first part of the Precocious Apprentice feat, but you wouldn't care as you gain the ability to naturally cast 2nd level spells of both types at the latest level gained (i.e.: Wiz or Sorc 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 2 = Level 4).

Nevermind, I just forgot that the requirement of Southern Magician is to be able to cast 2nd level spells.   

[Triskavanski]

Well my DM gave me the okay for PA to be used for Eldritch Theurge.

I'm planning something sort of like this..

1 Sorc/ 4 Warlock/ 4 Eldrich Theuge --- then around here i mix hellfire warlock and ET together, until i run out of both.. then its onward to just warlock, unless there is something else i can use in its place.

Thus the end result is that I cast as an 11th level sorc and 19th level warlock. The sorc is mostly suppose to act as bonuses rather than a real focus.

Only question is the race, and any feats I can use to improve my stuff...

I've just have a few limitations imposed by DM, the race has to have 2 legs (humanoid basically) and have no LA.

My current choices are Human or Lupin (Dragon compendium, race of anthropomorphic monstrous humanoid dogs. Lots of cool things, like darkvision and the like. Also no stat penalties.)

[Dreamweaver]

Is he good with cheese? 

You could, instead, go with:

Human (love the bonus feat and extra skill pts), 2 flaws, and the trait Quick (giving you -1 hps per level, but +10ft to your base speed, must have a Con of at least 4)

Warlock 2/Beholder Mage 1/Warlock +2/Eldritch Theurge 7/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Theurge +3/Warlock +2

Gets you a Warlock of 19, an arcane caster of 20 (not sure how the 10th level of Eldritch Theurge would affect the Beholder Mage class which caps at 10th level) with 9th level spells that you can learn as a Wizard, cast as a Sorcerer, and cast one spell of EACH level from 0-9 as a free action EACH round.

All you would need is an Int of at least 17, and spend 890 gp of your 900 gp at level 2 to get Enlarged and then Polymorph Any Object-ed into a Beholder.  Using your two flaws, pick up Assume Supernatural Ability: Anti-Magic Cone and Assume Supernatural Ability: Eye Rays (can easily be said that some where, back in your ancestry, someone had relations with a Beholder which lead to some minor affinity to its supernatural abilities in your family hundreds of years later).  So your third level you can put out your central eye, take Beholder Mage, and, since it is the first arcane caster level you just got, take Precocious Apprentice as your 3rd level feat.

By having the same Int (17), the same size (large), and the same kingdom (animal), you get a 9 for the Polymorph Any Object spell, making it permanent.  Naturally, it is a transmutation effect on you cast by an 11th level caster, so it could be dispelled, BUT if you make it to Eldritch Theurge 7 (i.e.: level 12), you can gain Polymorph Any Object yourself and cast it over and over on yourself for multiple layers as a caster level of 16 (since your caster level is 2x your Beholder Mage effective level).

The main reason for this is so that you can do the following: at level 12, you can take Extra Spell for your feat, and you can gain the Wu-Jen level 7 spell Body Outside of Body, since you'll be able to cast 8th level spells from the Beholder Mage PrC advancement.

This will allow you to create 3 duplicates of yourself (granted without spell casting ability), but they last for 1 minute...AND RETAIN ALL OF YOUR WARLOCK ABILITIES!!!

So you and your 3 duplicate buddies can be a blasting force for 10 rounds during a combat, while you also get to wing out 0-8 level spells each round as free actions, all by level 12!

Of course, like I said, until your reach 12th level, you might get dispelled out of your beholder form.  It would only be a 22 DC check on a dispel magic, but most casters who have it will need to roll at least a 12 at 10th level to get it to work.  At which point, until the casters are dead, you could, in theory, ready an action to counter spell a dispel magic that will effect you since you yourself will be able to cast 6th level spells at level 10.

But, like I also said, this is cheese, and the DM might not like you for doing it.   

[weenog]

(can easily be said that some where, back in your ancestry, someone had relations with a Beholder which lead to some minor affinity to its supernatural abilities in your family hundreds of years later).

Uh, don't try that particular explanation if your DM has Lords of Madness and is a fan of it.  Beholders don't work that way, even if you wanted to have relations with a beholder and the beholder was willing, nothing could happen in reproductive terms.

The DM might buy familial membership in a beholder cult.  Humanoids do sometimes serve and/or worship the things.  There is certainly precedent for believing something so strongly it gives you superpowers, in classes like Dragon Shaman, deity-less Cleric, Druid and others.

[veekie]

Uh, don't try that particular explanation if your DM has Lords of Madness and is a fan of it.  Beholders don't work that way, even if you wanted to have relations with a beholder and the beholder was willing, nothing could happen in reproductive terms.

You would need a Wizard to Do It.

[Triskavanski]

Yep wizard done it..

Savagage species.. I don't quite remember the page, but I believe there was a part about a ritual specifically to turn someone into a beholder.


But no. While we do in fact do some cheese, its usually stupid cheese. Like lets see If I can actually break Geomancer.. Or perhaps get these pact feats to work in a way that doesn't totally screw me over. Or see I can make a character who does 90 feet in 3 seconds.



EDITs

Okay so I'm just about done with my level 4 character..

1st level is Sorcerer.. Took PA.. possibly some other stuff too like Imp Int and Able Learner and University (+8 skill points at level 1, +2 the other levels) (if human, with flaws.)
Then Warlock the next three, taking weapon focus (ray).

Current Least invocation
Baleful Utterance - I've found this one to be good in the past, as you can cause plate mail fighters to suddenly lose a piece of their armor and stun them for a bit (even it doesn't change their AC)
Spiderwalk - Another good one. Always good to be in places enemies have a harder time hitting you. Esspecially since one of my flaws is Vunerable (-1 ac) and a trait is Agressive (-1 Ac +2 int.)


Sorcerer spells
0- Caltrops, Light and dunno.. currently open/close.
1 - Expiditious retreat, swift
2 - Hurl... Not that I really intend on throwing a weapon, but Its one of the things I see that relies the least on caster level.

[ksbsnowowl]

The trick to get around Precocious Apprentice castrating itself is to take the Focused Specialist alternate class feature from Complete Mage.  It immediately takes that single contingent 2nd level spell slot and turns it into two 2nd level spell slots.  You are now able to cast 2nd level spells (two second level spells per day). Precocious Apprentice then explicitly says you retain the 2nd level slot (which has been turned into 2, thanks to Focused Specialist.)

[Dreamweaver]

That doesn't really prevent the "castration" that Weenog pointed out.

The problem was not losing the spell slot or not having enough, it was losing the ability to use the 2nd level spell slot in the way that Precocious Apprentice allowed you (with a caster check) prior to naturally being able to cast 2nd level spells when you gained the ability to actually cast 2nd level spells (regardless of whether divine or arcane, any ability to cast any kind of 2nd level spells obtained outside of Precocious Apprentice stopped the first paragraph of the feat which gave you the caster check).

Hence: Sorc 1/Cleric 3 : would not allow you into Mystic Theurge since the ability to cast 2nd level Divine spells from Cleric now neutered the Precocious Apprentice which WAS allowing you to cast 2nd level Arcane spells.

However, as also pointed out by Weenog, you could still use the feat to qualify for things that required NON-spell casting prereqs, like the Cerebremancer, which requires 2nd level power manifestation ability.

Hence: Sorc 1/Psion 3 : would allow you to then take a level in Cerebremancer, which, by the 2nd level of it, would give you the ability to cast 2nd level Arcane spells, neutering the first half of Precocious Apprentice, but still leaving you with an "extra" 2nd level spell slot.

Of course, this would be level 6 when you obtained it, which would allow you to gain Southern Magician.  Taking 1 level of Savage Bard, and if you have the other pre-reqs learned at this point, your 8th level could be Ur-Priest 1, allowing you to jump into Mystic Theurge or Psychic Theurge at level 9 since you can cast 2nd level Divine spells via Southern Magician, which then those prestige classes could advance Ur-Priest to allow a fast gain of Divine spell level casting.

You could also just simply continue taking Cerebremancer until it is at level 6 (i.e.: character level 10) instead of Savage Bard to get the Fort reqs for Ur-Priest.  This would save you a level that was, for the most part, a waste, and give you another feat prior to going into Ur-Priest, which could help you meet its pre-reqs.

But I digress...

[Triskavanski]

Yeah, the greatest issue I have with some of these is it takes so long sometimes to get into a simple PrC, cause you have to be so many levels of this, and so many level of that. Like Arcane trickster you have to be at least a level 6 wizard/level 3 rogue even if you do cheat with PA.

However with my Sorc/Warlock..

What two least invocations should  I get (Not taking glaive, I don't have the ability to stand in melee for long.)
What spells should I take? Already taking caltrops, need that to function well at range.

Found some better flaws too.
Haunted - Suffer -4 in spot/Listen
Forlorn - Can't summon familiar.