Converting Maneuvers to skill tricks? [Hypothetical]

[RedWarlock]

I'm working on my skill system re-write right now, and it occurred to me that a lot of the maneuvers are basically parallel to certain skill actions and skill tricks. Not only that, but in my converting select 4e Ranger beast-companion material into my own Beastmastery skill trick collection, I've had to separate out the ones that seem more like a ranger-specific activity with a beast activity as secondary, with the intent to eventually convert them and make new ones for an Animal-companion focused discipline. But, what if I didn't have to make that distinction?

How much of a mechanical stretch would it be to turn ToB maneuvers into skill tricks? I'll probably be keeping a granted-maneuvers progression for the fighter-type classes, but leaving them as an investible option for anyone opens the system a little wider. (I'd also been intending to turn the default maneuvers, Trip, Sunder, etc, into 0-level maneuvers under the ToB style, and say that 0-level maneuvers are automatically known, giving them a clear mechanical position.) The other end of the logic chain is that because tricks have a fixed cost, regardless of level, they should either keep their value with levels, or be retrainable to effect the same trade-out function of maneuvers.

It also makes it easier because I'd been intending to make my psionic abilities as skill tricks, because I can throw the more supernatural maneuvers under a psionic flavor. And because skill tricks have mostly encounter usability, they're roughly compatible with per-encounter maneuvers. (I'd been intending to have some kind of re-use mechanic, either blow the per-encounter action points, or make the analogue skill check with a difficult-to-make DC. (most skill tricks being automatic functions, adding the check means they're free for the first use, check vs DC to re-activate per usage.)

Just looking for some opinions on a vague idea, sorry for the wandering train of thought. (I keep debating asking for a subforum for my concepts, considering how much of a single-person collective project it is, feeding off each other, but at the same time I worry that it would get ignored entirely if put out of sight. I know *I* browse via the updated topics links up top, but I don't know if anyone else does.)

[phaedrusxy]

I think the cost of skill tricks is too low for this. Most maneuvers are worth more than a couple of skill points. Likewise about psionic powers. I guess if I were familiar with your system, I might be able to make more informed calls, though.

[RedWarlock]

How much more, when you consider skill points are actually a fairly limited resource? And it's likely they would add prerequisites of the associate skill up to the equivalent level-position of the maneuver...

My psionics are entirely hypothetical at this point, and more resemble 4e psionics (base function at-will, with an augment that boosts them into something more impressive.) along with being explicitly psionic in function (IE, telepathy, telekinetics), not just psi-flavored magic stuff all over again. More unique.

[sirpercival]

This sounds a lot like you want the Bladecraft system I've started work on.

[RedWarlock]

The other option, if they are too much for only 2 SP, is to make their cost escalate based on the maneuver level. Then, as the user gains additional SP, they can un-train existing maneuver(s) to spend additional skill points on new, higher-level maneuvers.

That actually comes across pretty nicely, and reflects the trade-up mechanic..

[RedWarlock]

This sounds a lot like you want the Bladecraft system I've started work on.

Okay, you've left me hanging (and unable to find anything via a search or a review of your posts), now you must explain. (To devise an analogy, I'm standing in the baking aisle of the supermarket, trying to find ingredients for the birthday cake I'm baking, but you've just told me they've got cakes over there, and I might like one, but you haven't told me what flavors are available, of if the frosting is the right color..)

[sirpercival]

Lol!  Here's the link.  I will say that it's in the most basic preliminary stages; also, it underwent a major revision and is no longer linked to skill points, but it may still be what you're looking for.

[RedWarlock]

I'll keep it in mind, but I'm not taking anything straight from an outside source, everything I'm doing is filtered through my mechanical lens because I'm changing up so much of the mechanics. (It's more akin to an entirely distinct edition than just a new subsystem or a set of homebrew classes.) It's one of the reasons I'm holding off on requesting a subforum for it, because it's a campaign setting, AND a set of new subsystems, AND a series of class fixes. Doesn't fit the existing folders. (I'm also worried content in a subforum will get ignored. I've got website space, it's not about that, I'm posting here for social contact, commentary, criticism, and an external eye.)

Though I will swear that when I searched for that term earlier, NOTHING showed up. (I blame the forum's search database, entirely without reason.)

[Morph Bark]

If you're set on doing this, you need to find out the cost of a feat in skill points.

There is Open-Minded, which grants 5, and there are feats that grant two skill tricks and increase your allowed amount of them by 1, making them also roughly 5 skill points worth.

Maneuvers can be taken in limited fashion through feats (up to 3 maneuvers and a hypothetically unlimited amount of stances), psionic powers even moreso (only 1 level 1 power known, but potentially NI pp), incarnum can be done ENTIRELY through feats if you have enough of them, vestiges can be done in limited fashion as well (more limited than maneuvers, less limited than powers).

[Amechra]

I personally feel that, if you go this route, you should cut some things up.

So you might get a scaling "damage" skill trick and a "defense" skill trick, and then take the "Desert Wind" feat, so that it gives you Desert-Wind-ish changes to your skill tricks.

Like fire damage, striking back with flames, and so on and so forth.