Author Topic: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?  (Read 7741 times)

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« on: August 07, 2012, 02:52:27 AM »
I've played a buncha melee characters and wrote the guide on making the ultimate melee character.

Power Attack adds damage.  It can be a lot of damage.  Rarely have I experienced the accuracy penalty to be worth it.  If you must damage something for all you're worth, then Power Attack rocks.

I admit I've not played with Shock Trooper, which seems like a must for any serious Power Attacker.  (Same thing with Frenzied Berserker.)  In short, my Power Attack has been unoptimized.

What's this big clamor about Power Attack?

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 03:15:29 AM »
Power Attack and Combat Expertise are useful because you may end up with surplus AB. And they qualify you for fun feats.

/thread
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 10:17:01 AM »
Is it me or did Endarire get replaced by a bot that likes to ask simple questions in the wrong sub-forum?

Offline dipolartech

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
  • Handy Haversack anyone?
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 11:57:58 AM »
To me it looks like he's asking the simple questions about the things that optimizers take for granted and wants to spark discussion about both the mindset of "PA IS TEH ORNLY REQUIREMENT" and what benefits/detriments PA has.

My personal issue with PA is always seems like any discussion involving it presumes that you will hit no matter how much to hit you dump. In essence, I always get the feeling that PA is talked about as if it will always hit (and only in passing are the ways to make it always hit listed) because its assumed that if you use PA at all you've solved the "THAC0" puzzle.

Well maybe not THAC0 but To Hit Armor Class ofTarget just doesn't make as cool of an acronym.

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 12:21:17 PM »
To me it looks like he's asking the simple questions about the things that optimizers take for granted and wants to spark discussion about both the mindset of "PA IS TEH ORNLY REQUIREMENT" and what benefits/detriments PA has.

My personal issue with PA is always seems like any discussion involving it presumes that you will hit no matter how much to hit you dump. In essence, I always get the feeling that PA is talked about as if it will always hit (and only in passing are the ways to make it always hit listed) because its assumed that if you use PA at all you've solved the "THAC0" puzzle.

Well maybe not THAC0 but To Hit Armor Class ofTarget just doesn't make as cool of an acronym.

In my view, it's less that you can power attack for full and hit, and more that you are assumed to always know the best number to power attack for. :)

Also, power attack gets ridiculous when combined with several other feats.  Shock trooper is the obvious one.  Leap attack is nice too.  Any way to get touch attacks (Wraithstrike, Emerald Razor, Ice Axe, Find the Gap, etc etc etc) makes power attack even better.

Offline ImperatorK

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Chara did nothing wrong.
    • View Profile
    • Kristof Imperator YouTube Channel
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 12:23:43 PM »
Is it me or did Endarire get replaced by a bot that likes to ask simple questions in the wrong sub-forum?
I don't see a difference.
Magic is for weaklings.

Alucard: "*snif snif* Huh? Suddenly it reeks of hypocrisy in here. Oh, if it isn't the Catholic Church. And what's this? No little Timmy glued to your crotch. Progress!"
My YT channel - LoL gameplay

Offline Sinfire Titan

  • Hustler 3
  • Retired Admin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1443
  • You have one round to give a rat's ass.
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 01:37:56 PM »
Is it me or did Endarire get replaced by a bot that likes to ask simple questions in the wrong sub-forum?

I always assumed he was one from the beginning.
Concerned about how moderation works here? Please PM this account.

Offline Nytemare3701

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1657
  • 50% Cripple, 50% Awesome. Flip a coin.
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 05:21:13 PM »
I like his questions to be honest. I was considering compiling them into a New Board Member FAQ at one point.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 05:37:49 PM »
Did I not end the thread? If you wish to discuss Endarire-Bot, please do so in another thread in the proper forum.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 06:06:12 PM »
I asked about Power Attack because so many COers assumed it for melee characters.  Having played melee characters who didn't rely on Power Attack, I wanted to know what the fuss was about.

Offline Zionpopsickle

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 242
  • Lurking
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 06:28:37 PM »
I asked about Power Attack because so many COers assumed it for melee characters.  Having played melee characters who didn't rely on Power Attack, I wanted to know what the fuss was about.

Power attack is a very efficient way to trade something that most melee characters have a lot of (AB) for something they want (damage).  This makes it a very low cost way to enhance your character abilities but as you say there exist myriad other ways to do similar.

Secondly, about Power Attack trade math, AC is one of those things that is often highly visual apparent to the PC.  Excepting magical AC enhancements it is easy for your character to notice things like Full Plate, thick scales or the Rogue bouncing around like a toddler on speed.  Thus you can tell whether you can trade all your BAB or just some via highly simplistic application of common sense.

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 06:51:38 PM »
Thanks, Zion!  That was the straightforward and kind response I needed!

Offline belowyn

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 07:40:49 PM »
Mehh. When I first saw the threadtitle I though someone was beeing a troll, and were wondering why they couldnt power attack with ranged weapons ...

But then, thats what you get for not having english as a primary language ...

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 12:59:44 AM »
I thought he was asking if Wizards should use Heroics to pick it up.
No, Bite of the Wearbear does that for you. Heroics is meant for picking up Shock Trooper (im-bull rush via specific weapon).

Then I realized this is like his 8th thread asking a simple question. There is a Question/Answer forum meant for these short question/answer threads. So the question of Endarire getting bionic implants and amnesia about D&D aside, he should probably tone his current things down rather than keep going. A good alternative could possibly be consolidating all these threads into a single one: "Explain to me why X is great" which would seem a little more fitting and be more discussion aimed.

Offline Cyclone Joker

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
  • Flamboyant Flamer
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 01:32:26 PM »
Because there's no cost to it worth mentioning, and it increases your damage by a lot. In other words, it's assumed for the same reason Natural Spell is assumed on a druid; It's just that good.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 01:46:33 PM »
Mehh. When I first saw the threadtitle I though someone was beeing a troll, and were wondering why they couldnt power attack with ranged weapons ...

But then, thats what you get for not having english as a primary language ...
English is my native language and I thought exactly the same thing...
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Bauglir

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
  • Constrained
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2012, 11:45:35 PM »
Then I realized this is like his 8th thread asking a simple question. There is a Question/Answer forum meant for these short question/answer threads. So the question of Endarire getting bionic implants and amnesia about D&D aside, he should probably tone his current things down rather than keep going. A good alternative could possibly be consolidating all these threads into a single one: "Explain to me why X is great" which would seem a little more fitting and be more discussion aimed.
Eh, I think it's a different thing. The Q/A forum is for simple questions - this is much more about philosophy behind character building, and less about how Power Attack actually works as a feat. At least, that's the impression I get from these sorts of threads - we already know these things (PA = good for melee, for instance), but why is it true?

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 12:54:24 AM »
Maybe. But it all comes back to numbers, you can keep buying more and more gradually expensive items for damage, or pick up PA and convert the cheaper-at-that-point attack bonuses to damage. It lets you have more numbers.

Just like while the Monk' BAB blows, Flurry  of Misses until high enough seems crappy, and taking on another -5 for Lightning Fists, -5 for Oxyrhynchus, and finally -2 for Snap Kick all seems like a terrible terrible idea. Then you buy a Wand of Waithstrike and hitting for an extra four~five attacks more than anyone suddenly becomes awesome. It's converting hit chance to damage, then mitigating those miss chances for far cheaper than attempting to buy more damage, or in this case the multiple attacks can be better than any flat bonus.


« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:59:20 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Nunkuruji

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • I shall bring great terror
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 10:43:44 AM »
For smashing doors in 1 shot :)

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Why is the Power Attack feat assumed for melee?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 06:20:25 PM »
For smashing doors in 1 shot :)

There's an app maneuver for that.