Toying with a War Chanter build...thoughts?

[caelic]

Here's what I have in mind:

A martial bard/War Chanter--probably with Crusader levels and Song of the White Raven, and definitely with Allied Defense.  I'd LIKE it to work this way:

1. Inspire Recklessness in self and allies.
2. Using Improved Combat Expertise, pull full BAB off of attack bonus and add it to AC, conferring an equal bonus to AC on all adjacent allies.
3. Using Inspire Recklessness, pull full BAB off of AC and add it to attack bonus.

Net result?  A bonus of my BAB to my AC and the AC of all of my adjacent allies, while still allowing me to attack at no penalty.

Now, to make this work well, there are a few things I need:

In order to use Improved Combat Expertise, I have to actually be taking attack actions, so I need some way to maintain bardic music without expending standard actions.  I thought there was a feat for that, but I can't recall what or where.  If not, there's always a Harmonizing weapon.

Ideally, I want to go to at least level 5 in War Chanter, for Combine Songs.  The plan will be to Inspire Courage and Recklessness, thereby buffing attack, damage, and armor class substantially while allowing for the option of pulling off AC for more attack.

Any thoughts on the most efficient way to organize this?  Bard 4/Crusader 1, then War Chanter to 5, then Crusader for the remainder?

[Keldar]

Bardic Music does not require an action to sustain unless the specific effect calls out for one.  Inspire Recklessness does not specifically ask for standard actions to maintain, and even if it did it lingers the default 5 rounds.  You just can't cast spells while maintaining a song.  In other words, it works fine without jumping through hoops. 

Bard 4/Crusader 1/ Warchanter5/ Crusader +10 looks fine to me, presuming you don't want to take JPM to advance Bard spellcasting.

[sirpercival]

Questions:

1) Homebrew allowed?
2) DFI? If you can get Pyroclastic Dragon heritage, you can get both Sonic and Fire DFI simultaneously, doubling damage output.
3) By "martial" bard, are you talking about mindset; mixing with crusader; or a homebrew martial adept version of bard (of which there are a few)?

If you can get two levels of Seeker of the Song, you can get another simultaneous music effect.

What are you using to share the AC benefit with your allies?

[caelic]

What are you using to share the AC benefit with your allies?

Allied Defense.  No homebrew, and the intent is a bard-based build that focuses more on fighting in the front lines than on spellcasting, which is what I mean by "martial bard."

[Unbeliever]

I'd say your core idea is pretty good for what you are aiming to do.  I'd also suggest getting a reach weapon and using Thicket of Blades for extra attacks, though the Aura of Triumph can also be really good.  You just need to make sure you can survive the front lines. 

If you have Lingering Song (feat) then your combined Inspired Courage and Recklessness last for 10 rounds after you activate them.  That should be longer than any fight you will need.  There's also the Harmonizing Weapon (MIC) which I think will give you another 5 rounds.  Seeker of the Song 2 and Warchanter 5 give you the same stuff, so I'd say just stick with Warchanter. 

Allied Defense is just adjacent allies, right?  It's a shame it's not allies within reach. 

Depending on how tight your feats are, you may want to look at Dancing with Shadows (Races of Eberron) as its a major Combat Expertise oriented feat.  I'd certainly let non-Kalashtar use it as there isn't much Expertise synergy out there.  Also, Dragonfire Inspiration is always a good suggestion -- it will buff up the party and yourself quite a bit. 

So, yeah, the base is good, I'd just worry about its durability.  I think a Crusader dip is ideal b/c you can nab White Raven Tactics to alleviate the actions you need to use Bardic Music.  And, it's a huge party support ability.  I think both continuing Bard for levels 10+ would be good as would continuing Crusader.  They both have their merits, though they focus on different things.  Given that you explicitly want to be in the front lines, maybe Crusader is better.  Although you won't be able to get their awesome Heal maneuver before epic, but that's not a realistic concern for most games anyway. 

[Amechra]

Play a Kalashtar. Follow the Path of Shadows (namely, follow the feat chain that includes Path of Shadows).

Once you get the tactical feat in that feat tree, you can swap between either doubling your AC bonus or adding your AC bonus from the previous round to your attack rolls this round.

Also, have you looked at the 30+ BAB at 20th level thread? I don't have a link to it at this moment, but if you know what you are doing (and the party all have Kensei cohorts), you can get a BAB of +50 or higher.

Power attack with that sweet little set up, and you are getting sufficient returns, I would think...

[caelic]

Thanks for the suggestions, Amechra, but remember where I'm coming from: I play with a group that doesn't know the rules well, and does not optimize.  Therefore, I really have to pull my punches, and I tend to play characters who focus on making everyone else awesome.  Kicking things up to a BAB of +30 via Inspire Legion is fun, but I don't think the group's ready to handle that sort of play.

[Amechra]

But everyone then gets a BAB of +30 or more... and then their AC is getting that boost...

Have the character set up to do it at least once; that way, if the party is on the ropes, you can give 'em a surge to massive BAB and AC.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

2. Using Improved Combat Expertise, pull full BAB off of attack bonus and add it to AC, conferring an equal bonus to AC on all adjacent allies.

Rules quote? ICE on CW100 doesn't benefit allies and I don't remember anything about warchanter that allowed AC bonuses (even if derived from BAB) to go to allies...

Granted there are other, more limited ways of achieving the above, I don't think this combination works.

[Amechra]

Allied Defense supplies it to adjacent allies.

[caelic]

Allied Defense supplies it to adjacent allies.

What he said.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Doh! The mango index kept pointing me to Miniatures handbook...

Swarmfighting would help for squeezing in extra allies.