Gestalt Cthulhu-worshipper

[sirpercival]

OK, so this is for a gestalt PbP.  I haven't made a gestalt char in forevers, so I could use some critiques & suggestions.  The idea is to make a Warped Disciple//Pariah.

Rules:
level 7 gestalt
prcs allowed on both sides, double prcs allowed, but no triple nine type stuff
18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10 stat array
Two flaws, Two traits
Max HP
Full WBL (no more than 1/4 on any single item)
Custom Items allowed but must be vetted

Proposed Build:
Arctic Xevu Binder 3/Warpsoul 2/Warped Disciple // Pariah 7

Str 14 Dex 14 Con 23 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 6

Feats: Bonus Essentia, Improved Binding

Blemishes:
Curious Eldritch-being (Female) [basically necessary for the campaign]
Nightmare Form Infusion (Cha, Int) -- Favored Mutilation [reduce MAD by replacing Cha for binding checks & Int for skill points]
Parasite-Riddled Flesh -- Favored Mutilation [heal ability damage more quickly since I can't bind Naberius]

Available Vestiges:

(click to show/hide)

Atlach-Nacha
Cthugha
Ithaqua
Shudde M'ell
Rhan Tegoth
Y'Golonac
Basatan
Rhogog

Where I need help: Feats, items, vestige combos (I only get the indicated Mythos vestiges, nothing from the book), soulmeld combos (I only get the soulmelds in the warpsoul class, nothing published), and 3 more blemishes.   

Yikes.   


There's one blemish that lets me get fighter feats, I was thinking of using that for Martial Study/Stance to get access to Warrior's Soul or Essential Cut.  Thoughts on that and anything else?

[Amechra]

You know, you pick which ability scores Nightmare Form Incursion affects each time you ready it; you don't have to decide before-hand.

Parent-Worshiping Cultist might make a nice addition; you get a thematically appropriate Turning ability, which could be used for stuff like Divine Soultouch. And depending on the Domain you pick, that can be pretty good in and of itself. (Vanity domain for the Win!)

As for the last one... I don't know, Supernally Fortunate Monster let's you ignore rolls below a 3 on a d20...

[sirpercival]

You know, you pick which ability scores Nightmare Form Incursion affects each time you ready it; you don't have to decide before-hand.

Yeah, but when calculating stuff it'll be easier to just leave it on the defaults since I don't have to figure out what's what.  Anyway, it's much better to use it for Cha/Int than it is to use it for anything else.

Parent-Worshiping Cultist might make a nice addition; you get a thematically appropriate Turning ability, which could be used for stuff like Divine Soultouch. And depending on the Domain you pick, that can be pretty good in and of itself. (Vanity domain for the Win!)

What is this??  Either way, I'm underwhelmed by most domain abilities for a noncaster...

As for the last one... I don't know, Supernally Fortunate Monster let's you ignore rolls below a 3 on a d20...

I can use soulmelds for mobility, so I don't need the movement-rate ones; Madthing Initiative might be nice...

[Amechra]

Not Vanity... the one that grants you auto-rerolls when you roll a 1 on a save (not too useful if you have Supernally Fortunate Monster, I admit...)

Do you think I should add an extra feature to it, such as gaining SLAs from a domain or something?

[phaedrusxy]

Not Vanity... the one that grants you auto-rerolls when you roll a 1 on a save

Pride

[Amechra]

I knew it was something like that. Thank you.

[sirpercival]

I knew it was something like that. Thank you.

That one's not bad, and neither is Travel... but I think other blemishes are more impressive.  The real problem I'm having is that I could build for so many different things thanks to the customizability of incarnum+pariah+vestiges that I have no idea what to actually do.

[Amechra]

As I was saying, I'm thinking I might need to bump it.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I'm thinking:
Vestige: Atlach-Nacha
Soulbind: Beholder Shroud
unbound Soulmelds: Keeneye Lenses (choice from race), Delver Greaves, Neothelid Gorget
Additional Blemishs: Heretical Alien-Knight X 2 (Martial Study: Disable Chakra,  Martial Stance: Cerulean Surge*), Tentacular Scion
Essentia: 6

And basically cast webs from underground, followed by antimagic rays and disabling item slots
*Essential cut could use a low level stance, and Cerulean Surge is nicely generic enough to serve well.

[sirpercival]

I'm thinking:
Vestige: Atlach-Nacha
Soulbind: Beholder Shroud
unbound Soulmelds: Keeneye Lenses (choice from race), Delver Greaves, Neothelid Gorget
Additional Blemishs: Heretical Alien-Knight X 2 (Martial Study: Disable Chakra,  Martial Stance: Cerulean Surge*), Tentacular Scion
Essentia: 6

And basically cast webs from underground, followed by antimagic rays and disabling item slots
*Essential cut could use a low level stance, and Cerulean Surge is nicely generic enough to serve well.

I could throw webs from Ettercap Claws too... though not yet. Also, I can't bind to soul yet.  I'm limited to Crown binds at the moment; it's basically a choice between Blinding Spittle (gibbering mask) and Detect Thoughts (naga hood).

The Tentacular Scion idea is a good one, actually.  Reach is always nice...

In terms of vestiges, the webs are quite nice; Ithaqua's Sleet Storm ability could be nice for BFC... Y'Golonac might fit thematically, and has some nice abilities.  I'm actually leaning toward Y'Go at the moment.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I read the Soulbound vestige ability as essentially opening the soul chakra, although that of course would make things too easy . If it doesn't open the soul chakra, I suppose a decent choice would be binding a vestige, and allocating 2 essentia to Illithid Mask instead. 

The main options seem to either be getting webs from one of a couple of ways, or adding additional attacks (slam, claws, tentacles) and taking advantage of Multiattack.

Are there any homebrew incarnum feats that are particularly awesome? It seemed like the blemish that granted 1 power point would be useful with psycarnum infusion with such a feat.

[ariasderros]

Race:

(click to show/hide)

Arctic by RAW cannot be applied to anything other than PHB races: run that by DM.
Xevu do not eat or drink, guess that means you spit.

Soulmelds:

(click to show/hide)

If the character were for a more combat-heavy campaign, I'd say Delver Greaves would be amazing if employed tactically, but as thats not the case, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Still, using Dig isn't bad to keep in mind.
Honestly, it depends on what you want to do. Grappling could be good (well, better than normal), Slight of Hand might have some *unique* potential (hehe), but I would also think about doing thigs to help yourself resist people like Aly, such as the SR and boost to saves against Mind-Affecting.

Also, since the mind-affecting comes with Detect Thoughts at-will if you bind it, I would not underestimate the potential abuse of that. Couple with the "cursed" amulet of thought projection and you can be a great stealth communicator for the party. To say nothing of, you know, reading peoples thoughts in a world like the one he'll be in.

Beyond this, there is just so much here that you could use for so many different things that I don't know where to begin.

Vestiges:

(click to show/hide)

Atlach-Nacha: free nets? If you can't find over 9,000 ways to both use and abuse that, you're not trying. Unfortunately, the Spider climb is very short-lived (should just be constant, I mean slippers of spider-climb are cheap for a reason, and would fit with other constant vestige abilities). Monstrous Spiders of that size and swarms aren't that great. Other than the Nets, lackluster.

Ithaqua: Nothing here is amazing, but it is all at least somewhat useful. Sleet storm is great to lay down to make an escape, if nothing else (balance means difficult terrain, they can't see, etc.), it being bound to you ("surround yourself") makes it worse, but still useful. Cold subtype: several very well know bonuses to that, seeing as how cold-casting is one of the best known ways to bump save-DC's, to say nothing of Shivering Touch and benefiting from Algid Enhancement. Grasp lowers Dex, combine with netting and other Dex-pens, and it makes it much easier to deal with people in many ways (again, use imagination for utility, *hehe*). Windwalker can be amazingly useful too, as it make you essentially immune to your sleet storm's balance need, and grease, and marbles, and pressure-plate traps, and most trip-traps, and you can levitate (slowly).

Shudde: same opinion as Delver Greaves. This would be better than the greaves for its purpose, but you're more likely to have extra meld-slots than vestige, and between the fact that we won't be combat heavy, nor is this wnough better than the greaves, I'd say skip it.

Y’Golonac: If you dump Cha and do not show the sign, skip it, there'll be others in the party who can charm, and really well at that. If only one of the two is the case, then  . If you have good Cha and you show the sign  .
If you have good Cha and you show the sign and you don't bind this guy 
Heck, for this game, I doubt anyone would even notice if you allowed the influence.

Basatan: Sidestep 5ft instead of AoO? This is a free feat, and a good one at that. Charge that gets to be zig-zaggy as you want and you get a +4 at the end? This guy is melee gold. Two primary natural attacks with the claws?

The others just seem to suck IMO. Not even worth bringing up.

Pariah: Oh. Evil. Gods.
I really can't even begin noting all of the recommendations and / or combos. Combos in the class itself or intermixing with what all else you have access to.
Just from the base class, without Blemishes, you can get 6 natural attacks from vestiges + melds (2x claw, 2x bite, 2x tentacles), and this class can augment the heck out of Nat. attacks. (though you can't have 2 vestiges yet)

Really, this should be pending on what you want to do.

I could throw webs from Ettercap Claws too... though not yet. Also, I can't bind to soul yet.  I'm limited to Crown binds at the moment; it's basically a choice between Blinding Spittle (gibbering mask) and Detect Thoughts (naga hood).

The Tentacular Scion idea is a good one, actually.  Reach is always nice...

In terms of vestiges, the webs are quite nice; Ithaqua's Sleet Storm ability could be nice for BFC... Y'Golonac might fit thematically, and has some nice abilities.  I'm actually leaning toward Y'Go at the moment.

Ettercap webs are much worse. Max range 50 ft is the same, but the penalties from the 10ft increments hurt. Of course, you do get a lot more melds than vestiges.

Right now I would definitely go for the hood. The damage and the blinding wouldn't be bad if we start getting into fights more than is likely, but right now Detect Thoughts at-will is better (oh no, you saved? that's okay. *repeat*).
And I like Ithaqua, I do, the main problem with the storm though, is that it says you surround yourself. This means Sleet Storm becomes a 40ft emanation centered on you. So you BFC your own sight (but not your movement, since you are floating) and more likely than not, you BFC your own party. Then again, your party has a lot of AoE abilities that they don't need to see the enemy to use effectively.

As far a Y'Go. I like him. But as I said in the spoiler, if you have good Cha and show the sign, it is worth it. Otherwise, not so much. But which on to take depends on what you want to do.

You have the Bard dilemma. You have a lot of versatile choices, but you can only choose so many, thus you have to decide what to focus on.

[Amechra]

I take it you like the Pariah, then?   

[ariasderros]

I take it you like the Pariah, then?   

Like it?

Incarnum: A system that seems like it is good and versatile, but has so little that really stands out that it is used as nothing more than dips to gain boosts. Only played on it's own by players who look at it the first time and go "ooh, shiney" without thinking, or in low-teir, low-op games.

Binding: A system that seems like it is good and versatile, but has so little that really stands out that it is used as nothing more than dips to gain boosts. Only played on it's own by players who look at it the first time and go "ooh, shiney" without thinking, or in low-teir, low-op games.

Outcasts: A complete system that succeeds where WotC only tried and failed (miserably, many times, even beyond the above).

Would I play a Pariah? Probably not. I like the character types I like. One that screams "Ia Ia" isn't my style. Well, that's not entirely true, that is my DMing style, just not my player style. So maybe as a DM, I might run one.


Would I be interested in other outcasts? Quite possibly.

I like Bards, Marshals, and White Raven focused Adepts, as well as all other types of "cheerleaders".

Would I like an In-cast themed Outcast? Possibly.


I like the flavor of Druids. And I like the versatility of Druids. I'm not a fan of Rangers, at all, even the variants and fixes. Just not a Ranger man. But, I have trouble with Druids, they have so many abilities that are so very powerful, and so many that are so weak, that it can be hard to play in-between. I can play Wizards and Psions and Bards at nearly any OP level, but not Druids.

So would I like a "nature has PMS" themed Outcast? Does a Fly like Shit?

I never saw any other the other outcasts you made, I knew that you had planned on some from references within the class but I never came across any.

Also, you really should delete my first post.   

I'm pretty sure you have to do that...

And I've kinda hit a wall with the other Outcasts; I meant to do one based off of Reserve/Psionic feats (the Pariah is based off of Vile/Aberrant feats), but kinda got stuck.

You should base one off of Wild and Undead feats, kinda like an actually good blighter.

[sirpercival]

I take it you like the Pariah, then?   

It's a tremendous class.

Speaking of which, is there going to be any way of increasing your warp in excess of your Outcast level (for a Favored Mutilation)?

arias: this is why I like working with you!  Fantastic insights.

Race:

(click to show/hide)

Arctic by RAW cannot be applied to anything other than PHB races: run that by DM.
Xevu do not eat or drink, guess that means you spit.

Good point.  I'll run that past genius. 

Soulmelds:

(click to show/hide)

If the character were for a more combat-heavy campaign, I'd say Delver Greaves would be amazing if employed tactically, but as thats not the case, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Still, using Dig isn't bad to keep in mind.
Honestly, it depends on what you want to do. Grappling could be good (well, better than normal), Slight of Hand might have some *unique* potential (hehe), but I would also think about doing thigs to help yourself resist people like Aly, such as the SR and boost to saves against Mind-Affecting.

Also, since the mind-affecting comes with Detect Thoughts at-will if you bind it, I would not underestimate the potential abuse of that. Couple with the "cursed" amulet of thought projection and you can be a great stealth communicator for the party. To say nothing of, you know, reading peoples thoughts in a world like the one he'll be in.

Beyond this, there is just so much here that you could use for so many different things that I don't know where to begin.

Yeah, Naga Hood it will be, which means I won't be soulbinding a vestige, but at this level I don't think that's a big deal.  For my other 3 soulmelds, I think I'll go with Illithid Mask (for SR), Neothelid Gorget (for blindsight), and Delver Greaves (for a burrow speed).  If I find I need more combat, I can change them up later.  Lol.

Vestiges:

(click to show/hide)

Atlach-Nacha: free nets? If you can't find over 9,000 ways to both use and abuse that, you're not trying. Unfortunately, the Spider climb is very short-lived (should just be constant, I mean slippers of spider-climb are cheap for a reason, and would fit with other constant vestige abilities). Monstrous Spiders of that size and swarms aren't that great. Other than the Nets, lackluster.

Ithaqua: Nothing here is amazing, but it is all at least somewhat useful. Sleet storm is great to lay down to make an escape, if nothing else (balance means difficult terrain, they can't see, etc.), it being bound to you ("surround yourself") makes it worse, but still useful. Cold subtype: several very well know bonuses to that, seeing as how cold-casting is one of the best known ways to bump save-DC's, to say nothing of Shivering Touch and benefiting from Algid Enhancement. Grasp lowers Dex, combine with netting and other Dex-pens, and it makes it much easier to deal with people in many ways (again, use imagination for utility, *hehe*). Windwalker can be amazingly useful too, as it make you essentially immune to your sleet storm's balance need, and grease, and marbles, and pressure-plate traps, and most trip-traps, and you can levitate (slowly).

Shudde: same opinion as Delver Greaves. This would be better than the greaves for its purpose, but you're more likely to have extra meld-slots than vestige, and between the fact that we won't be combat heavy, nor is this wnough better than the greaves, I'd say skip it.

Y’Golonac: If you dump Cha and do not show the sign, skip it, there'll be others in the party who can charm, and really well at that. If only one of the two is the case, then  . If you have good Cha and you show the sign  .
If you have good Cha and you show the sign and you don't bind this guy 
Heck, for this game, I doubt anyone would even notice if you allowed the influence.

Basatan: Sidestep 5ft instead of AoO? This is a free feat, and a good one at that. Charge that gets to be zig-zaggy as you want and you get a +4 at the end? This guy is melee gold. Two primary natural attacks with the claws?

The others just seem to suck IMO. Not even worth bringing up.

I'm actually going to be replacing my Cha bonus with half my Warp, via one of the blemishes.  So Y'Go it is! 

Pariah: Oh. Evil. Gods.
I really can't even begin noting all of the recommendations and / or combos. Combos in the class itself or intermixing with what all else you have access to.
Just from the base class, without Blemishes, you can get 6 natural attacks from vestiges + melds (2x claw, 2x bite, 2x tentacles), and this class can augment the heck out of Nat. attacks. (though you can't have 2 vestiges yet)

Really, this should be pending on what you want to do.

I could throw webs from Ettercap Claws too... though not yet. Also, I can't bind to soul yet.  I'm limited to Crown binds at the moment; it's basically a choice between Blinding Spittle (gibbering mask) and Detect Thoughts (naga hood).

The Tentacular Scion idea is a good one, actually.  Reach is always nice...

In terms of vestiges, the webs are quite nice; Ithaqua's Sleet Storm ability could be nice for BFC... Y'Golonac might fit thematically, and has some nice abilities.  I'm actually leaning toward Y'Go at the moment.

Ettercap webs are much worse. Max range 50 ft is the same, but the penalties from the 10ft increments hurt. Of course, you do get a lot more melds than vestiges.

Right now I would definitely go for the hood. The damage and the blinding wouldn't be bad if we start getting into fights more than is likely, but right now Detect Thoughts at-will is better (oh no, you saved? that's okay. *repeat*).
And I like Ithaqua, I do, the main problem with the storm though, is that it says you surround yourself. This means Sleet Storm becomes a 40ft emanation centered on you. So you BFC your own sight (but not your movement, since you are floating) and more likely than not, you BFC your own party. Then again, your party has a lot of AoE abilities that they don't need to see the enemy to use effectively.

As far a Y'Go. I like him. But as I said in the spoiler, if you have good Cha and show the sign, it is worth it. Otherwise, not so much. But which on to take depends on what you want to do.

You have the Bard dilemma. You have a lot of versatile choices, but you can only choose so many, thus you have to decide what to focus on.

I think I have enough to post a basic workup, though I'll have to see how my different choices affect different things.  Thank you! 

[Amechra]

One of my PrC ideas (which I will write up when I have time!) will be able to "flare" their Outcast level;

In other words, a Pariah 10/<Cool PrC Name Here> 10 would be able to temporarily get an Outcast level of 30, with a related boost in Warp.

Other planned Outcast classes include a Druid one (because people are insisting), some kind of Caster one, and a Warrior one (maybe; it would be a kind of Fighter fix, when I get down to it.)

I've also been working on different ways to use Blemishes, instead of just a binary on/off kind of thing. Like the Warrior one probably will be kinda martial adept like, where they initiate Blemishes (which last for x rounds, and they can only have a small number active at once; you can initiate a Blemish a second time, essentially making it into a temporary Favorite). And the like. Ideas are appreciated.

Do you think I should get a sub-forum for it? And can you post any thoughts you have about the class and the blemishes in it's thread?

[sirpercival]

Sounds good.  I'd also write stuff for the system, if you're willing to take contributions...

[Amechra]

Sounds good.  I'd also write stuff for the system, if you're willing to take contributions...

Hell yes I would!

I would love to see someone 'brew something for my system.

[sirpercival]

Sounds good.  I'd also write stuff for the system, if you're willing to take contributions...

Hell yes I would!

I would love to see someone 'brew something for my system.

Since I had the idea for the outcast blighter, I can do that one if you want.  The only thing I need from you is how much of the Pariah fluff is Pariah-specific and how much is Outcast-general.

[Amechra]

Pariahs being from the far realms is about it; pretty much all Outcasts have to have some fluff reason why they don't fit in, and a couple class features that drive their alien-ness home.

I would actually suggest going for a Shapeshift Druid type mechanic as the base for the Blemishes in your case; have them be modifications for the basic form, as it were.

You know, if while you are working on that, you can also get the class to validly be used as a druidic Outcast (like ariasderros would like  ), it would save me some trouble, and would let me focus on getting Mr. Caster Outcast fully written.