Author Topic: Updating the Necrosinger  (Read 3384 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Updating the Necrosinger
« on: September 01, 2012, 11:42:12 PM »
I want to tweak my Necrosinger build to include Ur-Priest, since you can enter Ur-Priest much faster than Sublime Chord, and you don't have to take AD: Deathbound, you can just cast Revive Undead off the cleric list.  Plus, rebuke undead for DMM fun (not that I really need it...).

So, I need 2 levels of UrP, 1 level of Savage Bard, 5 levels of Dirgesinger, and 8 levels of Dweomerkeeper.

What's the easiest way to gain the Magic domain as an Ur-Priest?  I could dip cleric in my 4 extra levels, but I would lose it from UrP so I don't think I would qualify anymore.  Does Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) qualify you for DwK?

In the 4 extra levels, I should probably take Ardent & find some early entry into Thrallherd.  Does Overchannel count for the ML requirement?
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 12:02:38 AM »
What's the easiest way to gain the Magic domain as an Ur-Priest?  I could dip cleric in my 4 extra levels, but I would lose it from UrP so I don't think I would qualify anymore.  Does Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) qualify you for DwK?
:banghead

Sir Percival, when you enter Ur-Priest, you lose all divine spellcasting.
Look at the Cleric. First entry on class abilities: Spells. Well, you lose that thanks to Ur-Priest. Second entry for the cleric's class abilities: Domains. Hmm.

So the Ur causes you to lose your ability to cast spells. Domain possession =/= spellcasting. You still have the domain, and you still gain its benefit, you just can't cast its spells.

DwK requires you have the domain, not that you be able to cast the spells from the domain.

Quote
In the 4 extra levels, I should probably take Ardent & find some early entry into Thrallherd.  Does Overchannel count for the ML requirement?
Yes, but any time you don't have the ML (i.e. actively using Overchannel), you lose all of the class abilities of the PrC, including your thralls.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 12:15:19 AM »
What's the easiest way to gain the Magic domain as an Ur-Priest?  I could dip cleric in my 4 extra levels, but I would lose it from UrP so I don't think I would qualify anymore.  Does Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) qualify you for DwK?
:banghead

Sir Percival, when you enter Ur-Priest, you lose all divine spellcasting.
Look at the Cleric. First entry on class abilities: Spells. Well, you lose that thanks to Ur-Priest. Second entry for the cleric's class abilities: Domains. Hmm.

So the Ur causes you to lose your ability to cast spells. Domain possession =/= spellcasting. You still have the domain, and you still gain its benefit, you just can't cast its spells.

DwK requires you have the domain, not that you be able to cast the spells from the domain.
OK, I just wasn't sure if "having the Magic domain" required actually being able to cast spells from it.  Either way, if Planar Touchstone works then that's the nicest way.  I don't like spending levels on class features which get erased.


Quote
Quote
In the 4 extra levels, I should probably take Ardent & find some early entry into Thrallherd.  Does Overchannel count for the ML requirement?
Yes, but any time you don't have the ML (i.e. actively using Overchannel), you lose all of the class abilities of the PrC, including your thralls.
Hm.  OK, then is there a way to enter either Dirgesinger or Ur-Priest at level 5?  That would fix everything.
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Offline ClayQ

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 02:13:53 AM »
The bard variant that gives fort saves instead of ref saves (savage bard, that you are using iirc) would be able to enter at level 3 (ur priest) if not for skill ranks.
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 01:49:12 PM »
Qualifying for Ur-Priest

(click to show/hide)


Dirgesinger
(click to show/hide)

So, you'd need a bonus feat, either from race (Azurin, Silverbrow Human, Human, Strongheart Halfling) or from a flaw.
Your feats would look something like:
(click to show/hide)

I feel it should be mentioned that the wording of the touchstone is "choose one cleric domain; you gain the granted power of that domain." Thus you still do not actually have that domain, any more than the Ring of Evasion actually grants Evasion. Similar =/= same.

So your levels would look like
(click to show/hide)

You would still need a Item Creation feat by the time it comes to going into DwK.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 01:53:59 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 02:40:32 PM »
I don't think that works either, since Requiem requires Perform 8, which means we'd have to take it at 5 as well... crap.

Actually, I just realized something -- once I hit level 6, I can retrain Overchannel to Practiced Manifester and qualify for Thrallherd straight up.  So what we're left with is:

Any psionic race, buying Iron Will w/ the Otyugh hole

1 savage bard 1 (SF Evil, inquisitor [flaw])
2 ardent 1
3 ardent 2 (overchannel, retrained to practiced manifester at level 6)
4 thrallherd 1
5 cloistered cleric 1 (magic domain, knowledge domain, x domain)
6 ur priest 1 (requiem)
7 ur priest 2
8 dirgesinger 1
9 dirgesinger 2 (item creation feat)
10 dirgesinger 3
11 dirgesinger 4
12 dirgesinger 5 (x)
13-20 dweomerkeeper 1-8 (all other feats open)

Thoughts?  9th-level cleric casting gets you Gate and Revive Undead, which is all you need.
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 02:55:17 PM »
I don't think that works either, since Requiem requires Perform 8, which means we'd have to take it at 5 as well... crap.
:blush
oops.

Quote
(click to show/hide)
Looks good, except you still need a metamagic feat for DwK too. Again, easiest way is from a domain granted power.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 03:02:30 PM »
Yeah, nothing wrong with taking Planning domain.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Updating the Necrosinger
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 10:20:09 AM »
So, here's the question.  Is it worth it to build in Thrallherd?  He can do this once per day with Gate since he has 3/day Su spell (once for Gate, once for Revive Undead, once open).  I guess having a Thrall would let him do it twice, using the open Su spell for the second Revive Undead...  Thoughts?
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