Planar Binding and Magic Circle [3.5]

[ShubNiggurath]

I am about to play a Malconvoker and therefore I am looking very closely at the tools of the trade (Planar Binding spells and Magic Circle vs X),

And I came across this wording:

" If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only."

That doesn't sound too bad, since the Area line says: "Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation from touched creature"

But then below it says: "Arcane Material Component: A little powdered silver with which you trace a 3-footdiameter circle on the floor (or ground) around the creature to be warded"

This last line seems to refer more directly at the Magic Circle use for Planar Binding... and here it is the problem: a 3 foot DIAMETER circle is just a single square! Can you only bind Medium-sized outsiders? Or is this just another proof that D&D designers and WotC editors don't know basic geometry?


Also, I have another question about the Spectral Hand spell used to deliver touch attacks across the Magic Circle to bound outsiders that I want to curse to win easily the CHA contest.
Can they ready an action to attack the spectral hand? If yes, there are quite a few guides about Planar Binding that need to be rewritten since most use spectral hand-delivered touch spells to debuff their bound outsider into submission

[Tonymitsu]

No it's just a very poorly organized description of the spell combined with a lousy cut and paste.

" If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only."

Area here refers to the area covered by the spell on a normal casting (in this case a 20 ft diameter circle).  What they are saying is that if a creature takes up more than 20 ft of area then the spell only functions as protection from evil and only affects that creature. Though how they are unable to affect the circle if they can't even fit inside it? Well maybe they just are forbidden from moving in any way in that instance.

Also, for material component it says:

Arcane Material Component: A little powdered silver with which you trace a 3-foot diameter circle on the floor (or ground) around the creature to be warded.

And the material component for the Protection from Evil spell says:

Arcane Material Component: A little powdered silver with which you trace a 3-foot-diameter circle on the floor (or ground) around the creature to be warded.

Sloppy editing.

Can they ready an action to attack the spectral hand?

I would say yes. But given that the hand is incorporeal they aren't likely to succeed. Even a magic weapon would have a 50% miss chance. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that comes equipped with ghost touch that you'd actually want to bind.
Plus they would have to know it was there and be expecting it in order to ready against it.

If I were the Malconvoker I'd say to the GM, "I've finished tracing my diagram inside the circle. Now I'll cast Spectral Hand and order it to hide behind me."
"Now I'll cast Magic Circle to create the barrier. and as soon as that's done I'll cast Planar Binding."
While the demon is posturing and attempting to be scary I'll begin casting <insert touch spell>. As soon as it's ready I'll command the spectral hand to pass directly through me and deliver it."

[Endarire]

Though since a touch spell is normally discharged whenever the hand holding the charge touches something, would that affect you instead of the called creature?

[ShubNiggurath]

Eh, the hand could just go through the floor. I forgot that the hand gets all the benefits of incorporeality and almost all outsiders get aligned natural weapons but not magic!

I still think that by RAW an evil DM can still force you to bind only M-sized outsiders, but meh...

Thanks Tonymitsu

[ShubNiggurath]

On a side note, I am looking for an outsider or elemental to bind with lesser planar binding that has the following characteristics:

- Not evil or [Evil]
- Can be brought in a city (so he is either always invisible, can change shape, or looks "normal")
- Has something to offer as a bodyguard

Ideally I would like him not to have the [good] subtype either, but I may be asking too much. As of now I found the sylph but it is pretty bad as a bodyguard (very low hp)

I will also need something similar for Planar Binding as well next level, so I might as well ask...

Did any of you come across some decent binds within the above parameters?

Thanks in advance!

[phaedrusxy]

Hound archon? It can look like a dog as a disguise.

[Empirate]

Invisible Stalker might be interesting, although its N alignment makes it hard to bind.

If you know one, a Tiefling or Aasimar with a class fitting your purpose might be a nice bind.

Basically, [whatever] with the Anarchic or Axiomatic Creature template will fit your bill.

[ShubNiggurath]

Hound archon? It can look like a dog as a disguise.

Wouldn't a Bralani Eladrin be a stronger choice? With the additional advantage of being CG instead of LG (I am traveling with a paladin, that's the reason of the restriction)

Invisible Stalker might be interesting, although its N alignment makes it hard to bind.

If you know one, a Tiefling or Aasimar with a class fitting your purpose might be a nice bind.

Basically, [whatever] with the Anarchic or Axiomatic Creature template will fit your bill.

Yeah, I thought about Invisible Stalker... it is kind of crappy though for a Planar Binding (too many HD for LPD)

Using a template is an interesting choice... wouldn't a Monster of Legend be a stronger choice though? Any other template that makes you an outsider or elemental without changing your alignment to good or evil or, even better, forcing an alignment change to neutral on the good-evil axis?
And all of that while still being in a form that allows you to walk freely in cities (or invisibility)?

[phaedrusxy]

If you start adding templates, you're getting onto an awfully slippery slope... What's to stop you from slapping the paragon template on?

[ShubNiggurath]

If you start adding templates, you're getting onto an awfully slippery slope... What's to stop you from slapping the paragon template on?

Getting slapped by the DM?

I am just looking for something that will expand my choices, given the paladin-mandated restrictions. The DM will still look at the CR of the final creature and it abilities and say NO if it is too powerful.
I am looking for something with CR 10 or less, I guess, and without broken abilities. For example the Trilloch (MM3) while not a bodyguard would be an interesting choice for a summoner

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Btw, anarchic/axiomatic don't work since they don't change the creature type to outsider/elemental.
Monster of Legend does work, and I could apply it to animals but that's a rather weak choice since it basically gives me just a tank, while I was looking for more like a bodyguard/utility. Applying it to a monstrous humanoid would probably be a stronger choice but I don't know any that would be able to walk freely in a human city.

There are a bunch of templates that make you an elemental in the MotP but that source is out for my game. I am surprise that nobody said "Saint" yet 

[Tonymitsu]

Bearded Devils make good bodyguards. especially if you upgrade their gear.

Give him a Hat of Disguise and pay a cleric to slap him with Undetectable Alignment and call it a day.
Then when you introduce him you can make up any story you want. A properly worded planar binding (which I'm assuming because you are reading the handbooks) the guy is going to follow your instructions to the letter. "Don't mess with the paladin and obey his instructions as best you can" means exactly "don't mess with the goddamn paladin".

Is the paladin really that paranoid that he detects evil on every single person you guys come across?

[ShubNiggurath]

There is a good chance that the paladin is going to check on him at least the first time we meet (we haven't started adventuring together yet) so I can get away with it with the first casting of undetectable alignment.

But if he ever checks on anybody else and he happens to come across the area of effect, it would be hard to explain. I would much rather not risk it...