About CR and EXP ... and everything else

[Dwarfi]

Hey guys, I go through some encounters in my head, make test rolls to see how stuff works out and I came upon another question (oh surprise)

Fighter with a reach weapon + steadf. boots (ready against a charge x2 dmg)
Barbarian charges him
Fighter gets an Aoo
Fighter hits critical
dmg roll 12
x2 (readied weapon) = 24
x2 crit = 48 ?

Those multiplyers in Dnd 3.5 are sometimes a little strange so I wanted to check.

[Pencil]

MULTIPLYING
Sometimes a special rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll.
As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number
normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value
(such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a
single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value
to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to
the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).
For example, Tordek, a high-level dwarven fighter, deals 1d8+6
points of damage with a warhammer. On a critical hit, a warhammer
deals triple damage, so that’s 3d8+18 damage for Tordek. A magic
dwarven thrower warhammer deals double damage (2d8+12 for
Tordek) when thrown. If Tordek scores a critical hit while throwing
the dwarven thrower, his player rolls quadruple damage
(4d8+24) because 3 + 1 = 4.Another way to think of it is to convert the
multiples into additions. Tordek’s critical hit increase his damage by 2d8+12, and the
dwarven thrower’s doubling of damage increases his damage by 1d8+6, so both of
them together increase his damage by 3d8+18 for a grand total of 4d8+24.

-phb p.304

[veekie]

Basically, D&D multiplication is additive(unless dealing with Real World Metrics).
So you got:
Base 12
Readied x2(+12)
Crit x2(+12)
Total = 36

[Dwarfi]

Thanks again for the help.

Another thing that came up recently. How far can a prone character move/crawl ?
I am pretty sure I read something about that somewhere but I cant find it anymore. Something like 1/2 or 1/4 normal speed?

[ksbsnowowl]

Basically, D&D multiplication is additive(unless dealing with Real World Metrics).
So you got:
Base 12
Readied x2(+12)
Crit x2(+12)
Total = 36

Just for clarification, you would actually roll damage 3 separate times, not roll it once and multiply it by three.  But I imagine you all were just using 12 for demonstration purposes.

Thanks again for the help.

Another thing that came up recently. How far can a prone character move/crawl ?
I am pretty sure I read something about that somewhere but I cant find it anymore. Something like 1/2 or 1/4 normal speed?

From the SRD, Actions in Combat:

Crawling

You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.

[Dwarfi]

@ksbsnowowl:
To save time we usually just multiply the 1st throw.

Question on stacking:
Lets say I play a Cleric 6/Ordained champion 5
He can rapid cast Div Power on himself, gaining +6Str and +9 Hitpoints
This is of course an en. bonus

If I now cast righteous might on him does every effect apply normally or does the str not change as its an en.bonus too ?

So is he now:
+6 Str
+9 Hitpoints

+1 size
+1 AC (-1size+2 natural)
+4 Str doesnt stack ?
+2 con
DR3

---------
Another one while I am at it ^^
Longbow of distance + far shot = range: 100 (base) + 100(ench) + 100 far shot ? = 300 ? I think its correct as they are not calculated at the same time.

[veekie]

Righteous Might

Your height immediately doubles, and
your weight increases by a factor of eight.
This increase changes your size category to
the next larger one, and you gain a +4 size
bonus to Strength and a +2 size bonus to
Constitution. You gain a +2 enhancement
bonus to your natural armor.

Divine Power

Your base attack bonus
becomes equal to your character level
(which may give you additional attacks),
you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to
Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit
point per caster level.

This is not the same type of bonus. However, Divine Power WOULD overlap with any belts of strength you have on(which are Enhancement).

[Dwarfi]

Some new questions again:

1. If a NPC has a +2 longsword of frost that means it gets +2 on hit and the extra frost damage. The worth is equal to a +3 weapon(18k). Is that correct?

2. Longbow of distance + far shot
= range: 100 ft (longbow)
+ x2 (distance ench) + x1,5  far shot
Withe the multiply rules that should make 100x 2,5 = 250 Range

3. What is the worth of a spellbook? I thought about giving my groups' wizard one as loot. Though I dont know what spells are worth, calculation wise. He is Lv10 by now and I would like to hear some suggestions or advice on how to do this. Right now they are in a goblin city, so shadow spells will be the 1st choice to be in the book. Shadow well, " spray, " claws..., stuff like that and maybe 1 higher one.

Another problem again is the loot. I counted from memory what at least some of my players carry around.
Our Lv10 barb is around 20k+ over the "usual" wealth.
Our LV10 cleric is not that bad and just ~6k above
Our mage and rogue are pretty much below the average, so it kind of balances itself, but I would prefer a fairer distribution among the players.

I have to do something about this. Sundering a weapon, rust eaters... And the next loot will be not for the barb and not for the cleric. Or at least no improvement for them.

[veekie]

1&2, yes.

3:

Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll:  A wizard
can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a
magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the
spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing
(see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day
studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft
check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a
school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new
spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any
spells from her prohibited schools.
If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can
copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook,
below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from
unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll dis-
appears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell.
She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains
another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a
scroll does not vanish from the scroll.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying
spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s
level × 50 gp, though many wizards jealously guard their higher-
level spells and may charge much more, or even deny access to them
altogether. Wizards friendly to one another often trade access to
equal-level spells from each other’s spellbooks at no cost.

Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her
spellbook.
Time: The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level.
Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spell-
book per spell level, so a 2nd-level spell takes two pages, a 5th-level
spell takes five pages, and so forth. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip)
takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages.
Materials and Costs: Materials for writing the spell (special
quills, inks, and other supplies) cost 100 gp per page.
Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold
for the spells she gains for free at each new level. She simply adds
these to her spellbook as part of her ongoing research.
 
Replacing and Copying Spellbooks
A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a
lost spellbook. If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can
write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as
noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above). The process
wipes the prepared spell from her mind, just as casting it would. If
she does not have the spell prepared, she can prepare it from a bor-
rowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as
replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and
cost per page are halved.
 

So you have a permission fee of 50gp per level, and a scribing fee of 100gp per page. As each spell takes one page per level, this amounts to 150gp per spell level in the book.

However, when considering resale, you might also want to consider that if you are selling to someone who already has the spell known, you should waive the permission fee and just count the scribing value.

[ksbsnowowl]

1. If a NPC has a +2 longsword of frost that means it gets +2 on hit and the extra frost damage. The worth is equal to a +3 weapon(18k). Is that correct?

Almost correct.  I think you might understand it correctly, but it's not what you wrote.

A +2 longsword of frost gets +2 to hit, and +2 to damage, as well as dealing +1d6 cold damage.

So you have a permission fee of 50gp per level, and a scribing fee of 100gp per page. As each spell takes one page per level, this amounts to 150gp per spell level in the book.

However, when considering resale, you might also want to consider that if you are selling to someone who already has the spell known, you should waive the permission fee and just count the scribing value.

Yeah, 150 gp per spell level is the value.  But when trying to sell someone a spellbook valued at 9,000 gp, he's not going to give you any more than 4,500 gp if he already has half the spells in his spellbook already.

[Pencil]

Another problem again is the loot. I counted from memory what at least some of my players carry around.
Our Lv10 barb is around 20k+ over the "usual" wealth.
Our LV10 cleric is not that bad and just ~6k above
Our mage and rogue are pretty much below the average, so it kind of balances itself, but I would prefer a fairer distribution among the players.

I have to do something about this. Sundering a weapon, rust eaters... And the next loot will be not for the barb and not for the cleric. Or at least no improvement for them.

Taking stuff away from the players is always a kinda dickish move.The characters got their loot trough hard work and so they are normally pretty salty if you take that away afterwards because they were handed too much to begin with(even if thats not your fault).So I always,if the WBL is not crushed by too much, just hand them less in the future so it balances out naturally.(Emotional there is a big difference imo in taking belongings away and not receiving it in the first place even thou the outcome might be the same.)

Or you could just let them have their equip and give them more but make the encounter instead of a 10th lvl encounter into a "10 1/2"th or 11th lvl encounter.
I know that the rules assume that monsters have the ability to destroy equipment but it is still very demotivating for the party.

[Dwarfi]

@everyone. Thanks that helped. Now I can mix a spellbook together I guess.

@Pencil:
Thats true. I had a conversation about that with my players too.
Sundering stuff is a regular move in the game, as well as dying. Its supposed to be a dangerous world and sometimes things happen that you dont like.
And loosing a weapon is always the risky side of feats like Weapon focus or Impr Crit.
If I just take that whole risk away and never destroy a weapon, ... It feals like sugar coating the chars.

Same goes for death... till now they were either lucky or simply too powerful to get themselfs killed. I think they have to come close to death or simply die from time to time, to be remembered that they are not half gods (yet).

There will be one encounter against a humanoid group which will be really hard. One crusader with elder mountain hammer is in there too. If he fights the barbarian, he might as well use it on his weapon. Other than that, I will definately reduce the melee loot for our group.

[nijineko]

2. Longbow of distance + far shot
= range: 100 ft (longbow)
+ x2 (distance ench) + x1,5  far shot
Withe the multiply rules that should make 100x 2,5 = 250 Range

i believe distance is a real world value, thus would use normal math rather than the special multiplier rule, as per the quote earlier on in this thread.

[ksbsnowowl]

i believe distance is a real world value, thus would use normal math rather than the special multiplier rule, as per the quote earlier on in this thread.

I'm vaguely remembering that 3.0 DMG had a note under the distance property that Far Shot applied only to the non-magical amount, but I'm too lazy to go get my 3.0 DMG off the shelf and check.  In any case, the 3.5 DMG has no such notation, so you're probably right.

[Dwarfi]

A quick question about inititative:
Situation:
1 enemy NPC stands in a street, he sees the PCs and they see him.
They start talking until he decides that its time for his friends to attack.

So there is
Regular ini count for the 1 enemy NPC and the PCs
1 surprise round (1standart action) for everyone else (hidden until now)

After the surprise round the previously hidden NPCs get a regular ini count and everything starts as usual.

Is that correct so far? Surprise rounds always confuse me, especially when the PCs start shouting something inbetween, what they want to immediatley do and so on. Its good that they get so into it, but then every NPC would be slower than them, as they cant shout inbetween. XD

How is it with reinforcments? I think I read somewhere that new troups always go to the top of the ini count.

[ksbsnowowl]

A quick question about inititative:
Situation:
1 enemy NPC stands in a street, he sees the PCs and they see him.
They start talking until he decides that its time for his friends to attack.

So there is
Regular ini count for the 1 enemy NPC and the PCs
1 surprise round (1standart action) for everyone else (hidden until now)

After the surprise round the previously hidden NPCs get a regular ini count and everything starts as usual.

Is that correct so far? Surprise rounds always confuse me, especially when the PCs start shouting something inbetween, what they want to immediatley do and so on. Its good that they get so into it, but then every NPC would be slower than them, as they cant shout inbetween. XD

How is it with reinforcments? I think I read somewhere that new troups always go to the top of the ini count.

Assuming the extra NPC bad-guys are hidden well, and the PC's don't know they are there and going to act, then the first bad guy attacking (or making himself a visible threat) is the triggering act.  All the bad guys (who knew the ambush was coming) get a surprise round action.
The PC's (assuming none of them noticed any extra bad guys prior to being engaged) do not get to act in the surprise round.  They do not act until Round 1, but this has caveats.
If any of the PC's had readied an action (say, to attack the conversing bad guy if the PC's were attacked in any way), then that would actually go off FIRST, before you resolve the actions of the bad-guy mooks.
If some of the PC's noticed the bad guy mooks as a threat before the mooks initiated combat, but some of the PC's did not, the ones that noticed also get to act in the surprise round.  Those that didn't notice, don't act until Round 1.

In Red Hand of Doom, it always had reinforcements arrive at the end of a given round ("Six more hobgoblins arrive from the south end of the map at the end of round 4."), etc.  (Which is effectively the same as them being at the top of the initiative count, but they spend their first action "arriving on the scene").

[Dwarfi]

Revive the thread!
I know I had this sleeping somewhere.

I have another question on EXP.
How do you share EXP when players die in a battle.

It was the final big encounter and everyone would get ~5k EXP if none died. But close to the end 2 players died and I am not sure how to split the EXP.
just giving everything they would have gained to the others seems unfair, as it would feel as if they never took part in tha battle at all.

My guess would be: Take the regular share and simply raising it by a bit.

[oslecamo]

I would sugest simply giving equal exp to everybody, unless they died of great incopetence. If they died because of bad luck or simply because they dared to be the ones steping in front to take the big enemy hits so their teammates wouldn't, they shouldn't be penalized in exp terms. They'll already have to spend resources geting back to life after all.

[Kethrian]

Yeah, I believe you are supposed to split the xp in any battle the character took part in, even if they die.  Great if that is enough to level them up, so they don't worry about much when they get raised later, bad if they don't, because that's extra xp lost (unless using True Res, which lower level parties cannot afford).

[ksbsnowowl]

Everyone gets an equal share of the XP, regardless of if they died or not.  I'll find a page number for you shortly.

Edit: DMG, p. 41

DEATH AND EXPERIENCE POINTS
If a character takes part in an encounter, even if she dies during the encounter, that character gets a share of the experience points. If a character dies and is raised, the awarded experience points are granted to her after she comes back from the dead (and after she loses the level from death, if appropriate).