Author Topic: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice  (Read 8426 times)

Offline radionausea

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[PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« on: October 03, 2012, 08:00:23 AM »
So I'm building a Dawnflower Dervish Bard, also taking the Soundstriker archetype.

At level one he is:

(click to show/hide)

As I'm going to be an Aasimar I was thinking of taking the 1/2 level to a performance and apply it to Inspire Courage. If I stick as a straight bard that would give me an additional +4 on my Battle Dance for a +12 total.  Even if I dip it'll get me an additional +2 and I'd switch over to HP favoured bonus after getting it.

feats wise what's recommended? 

Crane Style/Wing seem no brainers.  I've taken Blade of Mercy so I can take Enforcer later on. Arcane Strike probably. That's not many feats used up.

Spells: Haste, Good Hope, Heroics. Any other particularly amazing ones for a battle bard?

Would a dip into Fighter/Unarmed fighter for 2 levels or so be worth it so I can nab Crane Wing quicker?

I have Weird Words for ranged attacks so don't need to worry about that (we, like sensible people, allow all the words to apply to the same target)

So, what to do, what to do?
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 12:25:47 AM »
Sounds good.  Blade of Mercy + Enforcer is a great combo, the FC option to inspire courage  is good if the DM lets you go beyond the +4 (+8 for you) ceiling that RAW imposes as if you had bard levels beyond 20.  You might want to start with Enforcer.  Both it and PA are very good, but likely wasted on 1st level enemies given their hp and your d6+6 damage...

Dipping for Crane Wing faster is better in the short term, but a terrible waste in the long term.  Really depends how high a level you expect to reach.  Note Unarmed Fighter will "only" save you 2 feats; you'll still need to wait till you qualify for Crane Wing.  MoMS Monk will save you 2 feats AND let you get Crane Wing super early (works like this: take Dodge, next odd level go into MoMS Monk to gain IUS...you can thus take Crane Style w/ your general feat and Crane Wing w/ your monk bonus feat), but...you will hurt your BAB.
Just noting that Unarmed Fighter, other than the delay needing all 4 feats may cause, doesn't actually get you Crane Wing any sooner.

Human is still tempting for the bonus feat (Crane Wing costs FOUR to get!) and FC option of bonus spells known, but azata-blooded is definitely also a strong choice.

For spells, Blistering Invective fits thematically with worshipping the sun goddess and synergizes with your Intimidate buffing.

For feats, from Ult. Combat:

(click to show/hide)

Seems like a no-brainer choice to me.  Also, Imp. Crit if not getting a keen weapon.  Arcane Strike is ok if you're not using the swift actions, you might want weapon focus before it.

If you keep Versatile Performance, consider Savant as your 2nd trait instead of Maestro.  +2 on one perform skill, which would then apply for using it w/ the two skills that perform replaces thanks to VP, so it's kind of nice like that.  Note one of those skills can be Intimidate if you pick the right VP (just put in 1 rank in Intimidate for Enforcer, then abandon it).
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 12:33:37 AM by StreamOfTheSky »

Offline radionausea

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Re: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 04:27:03 AM »
Thanks, I do keep versatile performance.  I had planned to take it in dance for fly and acrobatics but at second level perform: comedy for buff and intimidate is likely going to serve me better.

Will swap around power attack and enforcer too (especially as I don't actually qualify for PA yet...).

Rough progression:
Bard5/UA Fighter2/BardX

1(Bard) Enforcer
3(Bard) Power Attack
5(Eldritch Heritage: Arcane)
6(Fighter, Unarm) Imp. Unarmed Strike, Crane Style
7(Fighter, Unarm) Dodge, Crane Wing
9(Bard) Improved Familiar (Inevitable Arbiter)
11(Bard) Discordant Voice
13(Bard) Arcane Strike

Versatile Performances: 2: Comedy (Bluff, Intimidate), 6: Dance (Fly, Acrobatics)

We have Celestial available as a flat armour enhancement that costs 20,000gp granting +6max dex, -2ACP, -15%ASF, Counts as one armour class lighter.  So as soon as possible I'll be getting Mithral, Celestial Kikko Armour.

Full stat block
(click to show/hide)

Improved Familiar: Arbiter because they're sturdier than most familiars, have hands for wand use and have true speech. Will have it using wands to cast buffs on me saving me actions and then wanding allies or enemies as necessary.

Thanks for the heads up on Discordant Voice, had never seen that before.  Pretty sure my GM will allow it to work with Comedy rather than Sing/Oratory if I flavour it as really caustic, acerbic, biting humour which goes well with the versatile performance offering a bonus to intimidate and Blistering Invective.

I don't feel like I'm missing out on that much with the two level fighter dip.  An extra spell known of 4th/5th/6th but I honestly struggle to find more than 4 amazing spells at those levels for the bard anyway.  My saves are better, better BAB and two feats vs 2 lost caster levels when I'll mostly be self buffing? Not too shook up about the dip!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 04:31:24 AM by radionausea »
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.

Offline radionausea

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Re: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 06:18:15 AM »
Although, genuinely considering MoMS.  The BAB drop doesnt hurt (4th attack never hits anyway), better saves, saves a feat, gets evasion. Actually, just talked myself into it, MoMS it is.
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 10:50:32 AM »
Side Question:  is Enforcer as broken as it looks?  Or, does PF have some arcane fear effect stacking rules? 

Offline radionausea

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Re: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 11:39:46 AM »
It has silly fear stacking rules!

demoralise.

Nothing to stop you making them shaken with demoralise and then using something else to make the frightened though.
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: [PF] Dawnflower Dervish bard advice
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 04:53:36 PM »
Both MoMS 1 (IUS and bonus style feat) and Unarmed Fighter 1 (IUS and base style feat only) save you two feats, not 1.  Really, though, you've got a casting progression.  You've got a double bonus inspire progression w/ favored class bumping it, too.  Dipping out WILL hurt you.  In the long run, you can afford the 4 feats, it just takes a while.  I would not multiclass if you expect to reach level 7-9 range in a moderate amount of time and keep playing well past that.  And I would certainly not suggest dipping for TWO levels!  Evasion is cool, but it's also a ring and not a terribly critical save (Reflex for damage).  If you dip, make it only 1 level.  And the Fighter BAB will be counteracted by the reduced inspire progression.  Getting to the next bonus of that is a wash on attack bonus (you lost some, actually, bard wasn't getting+0 those 2 levels the fighter got +2) and -2 in the hole for damage.  Also hurts arcane strike damage if/when you get that.

Versatile Performance: Two things.  1.) Your Dex is higher than Cha, and will only get more so.  Is Perform Dance really a good idea?  It's likely going to lower your bonus compared to getting Acrobatics and Fly.  2.) On a related note, you cha is good but wis is bad, so one of the VP options to replace Sense Motive is nice as it makes one more skill based on your good scores.

Discordant Voice: The sing/oratory is just pre-reqs and fluff text, the feat rules state, " Whenever you are using bardic performance to create a spell-like or supernatural effect..."  you can use it w/ any performance, the feat just requires specific ranks, annoyingly.  Unless you meant the DM would let you change the pre-req.


Also, since this is rapidly approaching the likeness of my short-lived (game imploded :( )  DD Bard.... perhaps you might also be interested in this creative spell usage I planned to have her do: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/u/unnatural-lust

She was kind of a "make love not war...literally" type, using nonlethal damage, overwhelming displays of force, and intimidation to get others to stop fighting.  I was going to have her add that to her combat arsenal as an "aggro mechanic."  :smirk
Save, or be forced to move into melee range with her and get intimate.  Pulls enemies off the vulnerable PCs and provides a strong incentive for the enemy to stop trying to fight.  :lol