Spriggan War Hulk

[ksbsnowowl]

I'm running an 11th level gestalt game, and one of the issues I've run into is that nearly everyone in my party is effectively immune to sneak attack (Barbarian, Rogue, and Scout levels), which has made the very intriguing Spriggan (FF) nearly worthless as an encounter.

Tonight a different idea struck me.  I've often seen it suggested to pair War Hulk with a Goliath Barbarian, so he gains the benefits (and penalties) of War Hulk only when he rages; in fact I've suggested this before to people wanting to make Bruce Banner/the Hulk.  Spriggans are Small fey that have a racial ability to grow to Large size at will.  In doing so, their Strength and Constitution increase, their Dex decreases a small bit, and they lose their racial sneak attack and SLA's.

Being as I'm planning a foe for a gestalt game, however, I get to "ignore" the largest detraction of the War Hulk prestige class: the lack of BAB advancement.  However, I'm not sure what base class would be best to stick opposite the levels in War Hulk.  I could always go with simple levels of Fighter for feats, though that doesn't seem like the greatest idea.  I'm tempted to go with Scout, which gives medium BAB, but also lots of skills (all of which will be useful while in small size), as well as skirmish, which my PC's are not resistant to.  Any suggestions for these levels would be appreciated.

The following progression goes up to Gestalt CR 16, which will allow me to utilize it at any point in the future, wherever I can fit it into the campaign.  Also note that in my gestalt games, I split LA between the two sides (and the easiest way to make a gestalt monster is to just build it like a character, and see where you stand before making CR adjustments).  In this case I'll likely ignore the LA and just treat its CR as equal to its Hit Dice.

My PC's stats are all equal to 36 point buy or better, but I often will build "elite" opponents with a 32 point buy.  I've listed a stat array for both point buy values below.

Spriggan War Hulk

Racial Stats (Small): Dex +10, Con +2, Wis -2
Racial Stats (Large): Str +8, Dex +6, Con +8, Wis -2

Point Buy (before racial stat adjustments):
32 point buy: Str 16 (10), Dex 14 (6), Con 16 (10), Int 10 (2), Wis 12 (4), Cha 8 (0)
36 point buy: Str 16 (10), Dex 16 (10), Con 16 (10), Int 10 (2), Wis 12 (4), Cha 8 (0)

GCR
1.   LA 1//LA +1
2.   Fey 1//Barbarian 1 -   Power Attack
3.   Fey 2//Fighter 1   -   Cleave
4.   Fey 3//Fighter 2   -   Brutal Throw, Power Throw
5.   Fey 4//Barbarian 2
6.   Fey 5//Barbarain 3
7.   War Hulk 1//?   -   Point Blank Shot
8.   War Hulk 2//?
9.   War Hulk 3//?
10.   War Hulk 4//?   -   Far Shot
11.   War Hulk 5//?
12.   War Hulk 6//?
13.   War Hulk 7//?   -   ?
14.   War Hulk 8//?
15.   War Hulk 9//?
16.   War Hulk 10//?   -   ?

Combat Reflexes and Large and In Charge would likely be decent feat options, given that being large is the best way for him to be a threat to my PC's.  Any better suggestions on feats or classes to place opposite War Hulk would be appreciated.  (I don't use any sub-systems in this campaign, so no Tome of Battle or Incarnum, for example).

FYI, the racial class skills are Climb, Disable Device, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Sleight of Hand.

PS - just as I was about to post this, I reread the Mighty Rock Throwing ability of the War Hulk, and see that they already automatically get their Str to the ranged attack, so Brutal Throw is worthless except as a prerequisite for Power Throw, but at that point the feat investment isn't likely worth it.  So I guess I have two more feats to play with.

[Maat Mons]

The errata for Miniatures Handbook says that mighty swing is used as an attack instead of as a standard action.  An attack-of-opportunity build would be interesting, particularly when you get massive swing. 

[Noliar]

I like ranger opposite temporary Warhulk - good BAB, useful skills for when you aren't hulking, spells (cast rhino rush and grow as you charge) and a nature theme that goes well with fey. Take "archery" style and rapid shot with boulders.

[sirpercival]

Is homebrew allowed?

[ksbsnowowl]

The errata for Miniatures Handbook says that mighty swing is used as an attack instead of as a standard action.  An attack-of-opportunity build would be interesting, particularly when you get massive swing. 

I actually knew that, but pointing it out for an AoO build is actually pretty brilliant.  Hmmm.... I'm at the level where Robilar's Gambit would be regularly obtainable.  The only problem with this is that mighty swing would almost never get used as an AoO, just from the way that my players fight.  Only the Druid//Sorcerer (and his Animal Comp) routinely gets up in the face of the bad guys.

It would still be a great combo with Large and In Charge.  The Druid's Tiger-form pounce either stops dead in its tracks from a failed Strength check, or it provokes an AoO each of the seven times he attacks (girallon's blessing).

Is homebrew allowed?

Not really.  I am the DM, so if there is something I really like, I'd probably use it.  But, I generally try to stick to published material.  I very rarely even use anything from Dragon.

That's true, Ranger wouldn't be a terrible class to place opposite War Hulk.  Give him favored enemy (Human) and he'd be pretty effective against the party.  Rapid shotting boulders...  Probably need Quick Draw for that 
The ranger's spells wouldn't be much help, though.  With the Spriggan's racial penalty to Wisdom, you aren't going to get many spells, and I'd have to refigure my point-buy's to get him a higher wisdom to even be able to cast...  But I also haven't spent his level-bumps yet, so I could drop the Str to 15, and then kick it back up with his level boosts, giving me the points to up his Wisdom by 2...

[ksbsnowowl]

Build so far.  12th level is probably about what he'll be when I first use him.

GCR
1.   LA 1//LA +1
2.   Fey 1//Barbarian 1      -   Power Attack
3.   Fey 2//Fighter 1      -   Cleave
4.   Fey 3//Fighter 2      -   Large and In Charge, Combat Reflexes
5.   Fey 4//Barbarian 2
6.   Fey 5//Barbarain 3
7.   War Hulk 1//Ranger 1   -   Point Blank Shot, Track
8.   War Hulk 2//Ranger 2   -   Rapid Shot
9.   War Hulk 3//Ranger 3
10.   War Hulk 4//Ranger 4   -   Far Shot
11.   War Hulk 5//Ranger 5
12.   War Hulk 6//Ranger 6   -   Manyshot
13.   War Hulk 7//Ranger 7   -   Robilar's Gambit
14.   War Hulk 8//?
15.   War Hulk 9//?
16.   War Hulk 10//?   -   ?

By the time he gets Robilar's Gambit, he'd have a Strength of 38 (+14) when large, and a BAB of +12, so he'd be hitting at +25 with a straight-up mundane greatclub for 2d8+21 points of damage.

His AC on the other hand will likely need a boost in some way.  With 36-point buy, in large size, he starts with a 22 Dex, giving him a base AC of 15 before any armor or anything.  A chain shirt would get him to 19, but that's almost nothing at 12th level.  Of course, I'd have to stick with Leather to get all his Dex mod to AC... unless I went with Mithril, which would be doable.

The best option is probably to give him a few other lower-level spriggan minions with some caster levels, so they can buff the "party" up with barkskin and Magic Vestment and the like.  Maybe even make one of them a bard, to inspire courage in the big bad guy.

[Noliar]

Perhaps 3 levels of binder, bind Dalver-Nar to protect your mind a bit and boost AC.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

iirc WarMind 5 was a regular target of a Hulk Hurler build.
And also Pounce Barb 1 / Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6 builds.

[Jackinthegreen]

If you won't be casting spells with the ranger levels, there's always the spell-less ranger variant from Complete Champion that grants extra feats.  You might also try Swift Hunter to skirmish the players even if they become immune to crits.

If you want more skill points from a fighter base there's always the Thug variant in UA.  Some of the variants from Dragon 310 also get extra skills and skill points, if you want to use that.

[linklord231]

I like Dungeon Crasher levels for big brutes. 
Maybe Dungeon Crasher 6/Ranger 4?  Get wand chambers for your favorite ranger buffs (rhino's rush and Lion's Charge could be fun; Entangle if you got Pounce from Barbarian).

[sirpercival]

If this is for a BBEG, then I suggest Mawkin.

[ksbsnowowl]

If you won't be casting spells with the ranger levels, there's always the spell-less ranger variant from Complete Champion that grants extra feats. 

This is perfect for what I want.  I'll probably end up taking all three alternate class features from Comp Champion.  This big brutish Spriggan has collected a band of Spriggans to fight against humans invading the wilds (sort of the typical evil druid schtick).  He uses the daily commune with nature to find any humans within his self-appointed "domain" (near a trade road), and uses speak with animals to close in on them.  The bonus feat at 4th level can be used for Far Shot, garnering him an open feat slot otherwise.

What else should I give him?

Hmmm..... The ranger combat styles aren't really doing him much.  I might forgo them for the UA alternate ranger that gets wildshape and fast movement.  The only way it really hurts me is losing access to some of the bonus feat options from the Comp Champ alternate class feature.

The wildshape would basically just be a utility ability, allowing him to move quickly.

And now I just got an idea for a Goliath Druid//Barbarian/Warhulk.  When he wildshapes into a large animal he gets REALLY strong, and then he rages to get even bigger.  Give him Powerful Wildshape to make him a nasty grappler.  His favorite wildshape would likely be a Dire Bear grapple monster, but a Snow Tiger would work well too (Red Tiger stats, Silver Marches).

[Jackinthegreen]

I forget which Dragon mag it was, but there's a dragon mag that has different styles for rangers.  Fistbeard Beardfist uses the Strongarm style to get Power Attack for example.  Give Solo a poke since he should know the location better.

Edit: It's Dragon 326 on page 97.  And now I'm wondering if homebrewing the spell-less ACF from CC to work with those styles might be appropriate.     *added to my D&D list*

Shit, instead of playing Oblivion I should probably be doing some work on my to-do list...   

[ksbsnowowl]

I forget which Dragon mag it was, but there's a dragon mag that has different styles for rangers.  Fistbeard Beardfist uses the Strongarm style to get Power Attack for example.

There was a third-party book that had alternate combat styles too.  I've got it at home, but can't recall its title.  There were power attack based ones, a sword and board style, one that granted sneak attack, etc.

Google-fu for the win.  I had given this information in an answer on Brilliantgameologists 2 years back.

This is from Legends and Lairs "Wildscape" d20 book.  I'll cut through the fluff and just give you the bare-bones mechanics.

Variant Ranger styles:

Two-Handed Fighting:
2nd: Two-Handed Defense: when fighting with a two-handed weapon, the ranger gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC.
6th: Sweeping Attack: gains benefit of Whirlwind Attack feat when fighting with a 2-handed weapon.
11th: Ferocious Blow: A reverse combo of Combat expertise and Power Attack, take a -1 penalty to AC (max -5) to gain +2 damage per -1 to AC.

Explorer:
2nd: Frontiersman: +1 bonus to all saves, also a +4 competence bonus on saves and checks to avoid environmental hazards.
6th: Frontier Emissary: Gain an additional spoken language.  Also gain another spoken language at levels 9, 12, 15, and 18.
11th: Alert Fighter: can no longer be flanked (but foes with 4 more rogue levels than his ranger levels still can flank him).

Lorekeeper:
2nd: Master Herbalist: gains Brew Potion feat, as well as the ability to create potions of first level spells (even though he can't cast any yet). Also adds the spells of the Cleric Healing domain to his list (effectively lowering the levels of his cure spells).
6th: Healing Hands: Heal 1d6+Wis mod with a DC 20 heal check. Can be used once per day per patient. Takes 10 mins.
11th: Lore of Beast and Blade: spend a full round action to grant allies +1 competence bonus to attacks and +2 competence bonus to damage rolls against one of his favored enemies for the remainder of the encounter.  Useable 3/day.

Outrider:
2nd: Horseman: choose Mounted combat, mounted archery, ride-by attack, spirited charge, or Trample as a bonus feat.  Also suffers no penalty for riding w/o a saddle.
6th: Scout: +5 competence bonus to Ride checks. Mount gains +1 comp bonus to attacks, and +2 dodge bonus to AC, and +2 comp bonus to all saves.
11th: Rough Rider: +1 to attacks while mounted. His mount gains a +10 bonus to Jump checks, and movement made while jumping does not provoke AoO's.

Ranger Knight:
2nd: Ranger Squire: When using a sword and shield he gains either a +1 competence bonus to attacks or a +1 dodge bonus to AC (can change each round).
6th: Ranger Knight: +1 dodge bonus to AC when wearing no or light armor.
11th Ranger Lord: gains an additional +2 dodge bonus to AC

Slayer:
2nd: Stalker: gains +1d6 sneak attack
6th: Marauder: +2d6 Sneak attack (total)
11th: Death Dealer: +3d6 Sneak attack (total)

Spear Fighter:
2nd: Agile Spear Fighter: Gain +5ft reach with a non-reach spear. Can attack adjacent foe even if a spear's reach would normally not allow it.
6th: Precise Spear Figher: Ignore the -4 penalty for attacking a creature in melee when utilizing the spear's reach, and ignores any cover short of complete cover.
11th: Redoubtable Spear Fighter: Whenever a foe provokes an AoO due to movement, the Ranger counts as having set his spear against a charge, even if the foe was not charging.

In the same section it has bonuses for each of these styles (and the two from the PHB) in place of spellcasting.  They don't start until 12th level though (12, 14, 16, 18).

[Empirate]

Where the AC department is concerned, Fist of the Forest would do you a world of good, with Con to AC. It also provides nice bonuses during its Rage-lookalike. Barbarian should be used with Whirling Frenzy instead of regular Rage, for an AC boost instead of penalty whiling frenzying. 3 Binder levels for binding Dahlver-Nar is a nice suggestion, as well (or just take 1 level and the Improved Binding Feat), adding another half of your Con mod as NA.

That said, 1 level of variant Wizard (with the UA alternate class feature changing Scribe Scroll into a Fighter Feat) will provide you with all the Mirror Images you could possibly want via a cheap wand. Similarly, 1 level of Cleric and picking up the Magic domain (I'll suggest Luck as your other domain).

[Risada]

You could add Mineral Warrior to your Spriggan... gaining DR 8/Adamantine and +3 Natural Armor, plus +2 Str and +4 Con, allowing to use Dahlver-Nar (Or even Fist of the Forest) for varying levels of Con to AC. Add the Roll with it feat fo increase the DR by 2, or a Iron Ward Diamond, for a boost to your DR...

[ksbsnowowl]

I think Fist of the Forest would be a good fit.  I can even squeeze it in prior to the War Hulk levels...

Go Fey 5//Barb 2/Fighter 2/FotF 1 prior to the levels of War Hulk and Ranger.

Actually, I'll probably just go Barb 1 and take an extra level of Ranger so I get a second bonus feat.  I'd have to stick with normal ranger (not wildshape ranger) to get Point Blank Shot and Far Shot via the ranger bonus feats.

GCR
1.   LA 1//LA +1
2.   Fey 1//Barbarian 1      Power Attack
3.   Fey 2//Fighter 1         Cleave
4.   Fey 3//Fighter 2         Improved Unarmed Strike, Great Fort
5.   Fey 4//Ranger 1         Track
6.   Fey 5//Fist o Forest 1   
7.   War Hulk 1//Ranger 2      Combat Reflexes, Rapid Shot
8.   War Hulk 2//Ranger 3     
9.   War Hulk 3//Ranger 4      Point Blank Shot
10.   War Hulk 4//Ranger 5   Large and In Charge
11.   War Hulk 5//Ranger 6   Manyshot
12.   War Hulk 6//Ranger 7
13.   War Hulk 7//Ranger 8   Robilar's Gambit, Far Shot
14.   War Hulk 8//?
15.   War Hulk 9//?
16.   War Hulk 10//?   -   ?

The only downer about Fist of the Forest is the inability to wear mundane armor.  But his Con will be 24, granting him +7 to his AC.  He gets a nice 2d6 base damage unarmed strike, though.

[Ithamar]

When you go large and War Hulk kicks in, you lose the CON to AC from First of the Forest though.  You are treating as having 0 ranks in skills that are a pre-req to get into FotF. 

[ksbsnowowl]

When you go large and War Hulk kicks in, you lose the CON to AC from First of the Forest though.  You are treating as having 0 ranks in skills that are a pre-req to get into FotF. 

Drat!  You are correct.

Darn.

[ksbsnowowl]

Well, I'll probably just end up going Barb 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 12 on the non-Warhulk side (and who knows what beyond that).

Gets me lots of bonus feats, great hit dice for all but one level, Full BAB, and good skills.  A couple bard and spirit shaman levels on his minions gets a few quick buffs for him.