What would you do?

[InnaBinder]

When I started DMing my current game, we all agreed on some basic ground rules.

• While nobody is required to be here, repeated absences put a strain on the others in the group and within the game world.  Multiple absences (5 or more) within a six-month span will potentially result in your being asked to find a new game.
• Computers and cell phones at the table are either very useful, or very distracting.  Using the computer for social networking or surfing the 'net for non-game related material indicates you'd rather be doing something other than playing this game.  You're welcome to make that choice, but don't keep stringing the rest of us along if so.
• All of you agree to be responsible for your own character sheets and dice (I asked).  Please don't make a habit of coming unprepared and taking up game time reproducing your character, or begging dice every week.
• Given a small window of time in which to game (4 hours a week), being late is an imposition on all the players' gaming.  Please be on time, or notify someone (preferably the DM) if you know you're going to be late.

Folks consistently had trouble being on time, so we moved the start time back half an hour with the explicit understanding that we didn't want to see this be a moving goalpost; the folks who were late before are now late by the same margin as before, however.  There's no advance notice of this aside from ongoing precedent.

One player has missed 4 weeks in a row, and 7 in the last ninety days.  Another, defending that player, insisted last week that SPEAKING LOUDLY AT ME was not the same thing as SHOUTING when I brought up the player's repeated missed sessions; for my part, I replied that the fact that you can shout louder than you are right now doesn't mean you're not actually shouting at the moment.  The player who was "not shouting" declined to come this week, as did the regularly absent player.  Another player, who has consistently forgotten either dice or sheet, declined to come because I'd reminded that player about the agreement regarding coming prepared.

At least three of the players in the group will consistently bring their laptops, and, if I were to ask, they'll say they're only looking at things related to the game.  A walk around the gaming table tells me they consider Facebook, a flash games site, and Tumblr "related to the game."  When this is brought up, they express bewilderment that the agreement about surfing the 'net should also apply to them, despite having already agreed to it (in at least one case, suggesting it themselves) ahead of time.  Cell phone use is often similarly unfocused, not a work or family-related issue, and disruptive.

Is it time to move past the "don't kick players out of your game" idea for me?  Maybe time for me to be the one to leave?  I don't know.

[linklord231]

If you asked everyone to leave, how many people would be left?
If you would still have enough people to keep playing, go for it.
If you would not, maybe it's time to lower your standards. 

[dman11235]

The point of the game is, well, it's a game.  You have fun.  So if there's a player who's not making the game fun, you should address that.  If everyone's having fun BUT you, maybe you're the one who should find a new group?  I know with my old group, we sometimes didn't get very far into the game because of social media, but it was still fun because we were doing it together.  So really, you should ask "is this making it not fun?".

[Jackinthegreen]

I'm reminded of how my dad handled my mom's perpetual lateness:  He'd tell her that they'd have to be somewhere half an hour before they actually needed to be there.  Then when she caught on he told her it was a full hour earlier.  So it's possible you could tell the tardy people it starts at X time, but everyone else understands it actually starts later than that.  In essence, make sure to schedule time to include whatever tardiness there is.

Of course, the biggest problem here is the lack of responsibility from pretty much everyone it seems.  I'm guessing you've asked why they do what they do and not gotten a satisfactory answer, so you need to assess whether them doing that crap would be more beneficial than trying to enforce the rules.

How old are these people anyway?  I can see that kind of stuff from high schoolers and maybe into early college years, but if they're decently into their twenties they had damn well better be more responsible.  If you're going to leave them, the parting words I'd leave with are something like: "This isn't working.  I was hoping you guys could be responsible enough to hold your end of the deal we all made at the start.  Clearly you can't.  Thus, I'm leaving.  Don't call on me again until you have your shit together."

I don't know your circumstances, so I can't say if that would actually be acceptable to say.  But sometimes you have to say stuff people might find unacceptable at first to get them to grow up.  I've had the fortune of being able to piss off a couple friends enough that they did something, and they sincerely thanked me for it afterwards.

[wotmaniac]

I've experienced the same thing from time to time; and I've set in place similar "rules of etiquette", with varying degrees of success.

- no books on the table during active game-play: reading through books is something that you do elsewhere (only exception is the occasional rules clarification)
   -- as an extension of this rule, I also insist that nothing on the table that isn't related to the game (I've got plenty of end tables and the like for storing stuff) -- I've spent a lot of time, effort, and money on my gaming table, so I don't want to have all that wasted just because somebody wants to be a slob.
- no electronic media: you have a character sheet for a reason; additionally, if you'd rather play on facetube or talk on the phone, stay home (only exception is work/family related; even still, if it becomes too obtrusive, you should probably leave and take care of it)
- Timeliness: the stated start time is when I will be ready to accept guest (or, if not at my house, the time I'll show up) -- dice start rolling 1 hour later (I like to sit and chit-chat a little before game -- tends to cut down on the # of derails).
- be prepared: you've got at least a week to update your character sheet -- if you can't be bothered to do something as simple as update your character sheet, then you'll have to play without the updates.

I've occasionally been known to go as far as end/cancel sessions over this -- which usually seems to get everybody back in line (at least for a few months).
It's a simple issue of respect -- if you have none, I don't want you around.
Furthermore, even as DM, I've been the odd-man-out on this -- if I'm in the minority over this, I just leave the group and find/build another gaming group.

[InnaBinder]

The point of the game is, well, it's a game.  You have fun.  So if there's a player who's not making the game fun, you should address that.  If everyone's having fun BUT you, maybe you're the one who should find a new group?  I know with my old group, we sometimes didn't get very far into the game because of social media, but it was still fun because we were doing it together.  So really, you should ask "is this making it not fun?".

While I respect your opinion, I'm not sure I understand it.  If you signed up for a hiking group, and every week everyone instead hung out at the meeting spot and played Yugi-oh!, would that satisfy the reasons you signed up for a hiking group?

How old are these people anyway?  I can see that kind of stuff from high schoolers and maybe into early college years, but if they're decently into their twenties they had damn well better be more responsible.  If you're going to leave them, the parting words I'd leave with are something like: "This isn't working.  I was hoping you guys could be responsible enough to hold your end of the deal we all made at the start.  Clearly you can't.  Thus, I'm leaving.  Don't call on me again until you have your shit together."

They are 18 - 20.  Repeated effort on my part has located nobody in town closer to my age-group with an open slot at a gaming table, and as far as I have been able to tell, mine is the only 3.5 game still in town.

[dman11235]

On the hiking group: Well, no.  But that's more of a thing where they just need to change their name.  It's not a bad thing, just misleading.  The same thing applies here.  Only more so, since it's a group of friends playing a game, rather than a group of people getting together to do something.  The exception is, of course, when you're doing this in something like a tournament or something, in which case the people are probably there to actually play.

[Unbeliever]

I value my time very highly, not having much of it.  So, I think if I had the OP's experience I would have a simple talk with them about it.  And, then if things persisted I would jump ship and either reconstitute another gaming group or find a video game or something.  I'm enjoying Torchlight 2, for what that's worth.

Interruptions and scheduling issues are inevitable.  Two of my main gaming buddies and good friends have a 2 year old.  We love him, but of course he's a disruption.  That's part of the cost of doing business, and we all know it and roll with it.  That's different than leaving your character sheet home constantly.  And, for gods sake, just post it on google docs or something. 

Another alternative might be to roll with and run/participate in a more casual game.  Something with a more porous plotline where people can weave in and out of.  Or, even to play a game you enjoy less (e.g., 4E) but with a more committed group.  That being said, a lot of them sound like they just aren't that into it, and are dropping out of their own accord.  I'd talk to the people left like adults, see what they are up for, and proceed from there.

Sorry, I've been in that situation and I've found it enormously frustrating. 

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

To answer the thread title, I'd have a frank conversation about whether people are willing to start living up to the agreement they made when they started the game and if they aren't, I'd probably fold.

From the description it sounds like you'd get about the same amount of interaction and player commitment from a PbP game, and that would mean you didn't have to clear off your calendar for a given day.

[InnaBinder]

To answer the thread title, I'd have a frank conversation about whether people are willing to start living up to the agreement they made when they started the game and if they aren't, I'd probably fold.

From the description it sounds like you'd get about the same amount of interaction and player commitment from a PbP game, and that would mean you didn't have to clear off your calendar for a given day.

We've had those conversations; folks have given me the impression they always think they're the good one in the bunch.

I agree, it would probably be simpler if all I wanted was a PbP game.

[Halinn]

To answer the thread title, I'd have a frank conversation about whether people are willing to start living up to the agreement they made when they started the game and if they aren't, I'd probably fold.

From the description it sounds like you'd get about the same amount of interaction and player commitment from a PbP game, and that would mean you didn't have to clear off your calendar for a given day.

We've had those conversations; folks have given me the impression they always think they're the good one in the bunch.

I agree, it would probably be simpler if all I wanted was a PbP game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

[awaken_D_M_golem]

With dudes coming and going ... (grumble)

4e has Companion Characters, basically
monsters +/- 1 level with minor nerfs.

3e could do almost the same.  Someone
doesn't show up, someone else gets to play
their PC plus a Henchman, say perhaps
any of the book NPCs at most 1 level down.

The other way is to cut monster levels as if
they had Negative Levels.  Requires re-doing
exp and some basic maths, otherwise
encoutners are the same.

Blackjack or Craps or Roulette are fun regardless
of how many extra fat cats or floozies distract.